Worms - Wait what?

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by Pakanohida, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Ahh so global deforestation will be Brain's fault. Nothing to do with multinationals ripping the forest out to get to the minerals....
     
  3. Farside

    Farside Junior Member

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    That is one weird article.

    I thought worms eat bacteria? I thought that nightcrawlers etc are compost worms, not earth worms.
    I also thought that they would not survive long in a forest because it's not the right environment for them.

    I'm wondering exactly what the agenda is here.
     
  4. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    I read about this a year ago, and I believe it is just part of a fairly natural cycle. The doomsayers are always trying to scare the pants off everyone. It seems that we. are again, killing the earth by anglers bringing worms to areas they would have naturally come to eventually. These people are some of the same ones that showed "scientific charts" twenty years ago showing that in twenty years our coastal areas would be covered by all the water from our melting glaciers due to "Man made" global warming. If our SAVIORS would direct their efforts to preparing for the natural cyclic changes instead of trying to prevent them we would would be better prepared for the inevetable change. When you know a storm is coming you don't attempt to stop it in it's tracks. You prepare for it. If our fragile civilization is still around a hundred years or so from now (which is doubtful, considering everything else going on) future generations will look back and scratch their heads in wonder.

    We do have an obligation to preserve the stability of the world we live in for future generations, but There are some things we cannot control. We have learned, over thousands of years, what causes Winter and Summer. There are things going on all the time which we may never fathom and only make educated guesses at, like the THEORY of evolution. Until we have proven them beyond the shaddow of a doubt, let us not foist our THEORIES on the rest of the world and order that they be taught and acted upon. I believe the earthworm has it's place in the cycles on this Earth. Perhaps we are responsible for an acceleration of a cycle, but it would have happened without our "help".
    So, What's the big deal?

    Benjy
     
  5. purplepear

    purplepear Junior Member

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    Ah benji - the earthworm argument used to deny global warming and mans part in it - well done.
     
  6. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Purple Pear farm;

    Thank you, I think. Was that tongue in cheek? I do believe we are having a change in climate, but as far as Man having a part in the change, some "Scientists go to the extreme of saying that we may be responsible for it not being as drastic a change as it might without our actions. In other words, we may be having a cooling effect on the planet. I wish I could remember the site you could go to to find this, but my memory is not as sharp as it once was.. ..... I was going to make a smart remark after that last confession, but I forgot what it was.

    Benjy
     
  7. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    It's part of the complexity of climate change benji. Before it was just theory - people were postulating and forecasting what the changes might look like. Global warming seemed like the most compelling of those effects to people who wanted to simplify it. Now we are actually seeing it and it looks pretty much like global warming, melting icecaps, extremes of weather (including hot and cold, wet and dry extremes), species extinctions, etc.

    There is no real debate still going on about mans involvement. The appearance of a debate is coming from the politicking and grandstanding which leads to a mislead populace. This denial is coming from vested interests and I think it is also coming from the fear of what this really means. We are in hot water and the politics has no palatable solution. So they ignore it and deny it or at the very best give it lip service without any actual plan.
     
  8. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Grahame;

    Excellent analogy. And while we're there, when you get sick and your "gut flora" is doing it's best to fight off the alians, what does your doctor prescribe? Antibiotics (against life) to kill off your defenders in hopes of getting the intruders. Oh well...That's life?

    Benjy
     
  9. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    Sorry Benji, you got in there before I edited my post.
     
  10. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Not the right analogy. A better one would be comparing fisherman bringing worms into an environment they haven't been in before with Europeans bringing stoats to NZ, or cats to Australia.

    The article is very superficial and gives absolutely no referencing to anything real at all. "Scientists across the country...", that's about as sloppy journalism as you can get.

    A quick google suggests the problem is fishermen dumping bait ie worm farms at home aren't the issue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_America

    https://forums.permaculturenews.org/showthread.php?11758-Worms-are-destroying-forests-habitat ;-)
     
  11. briansworms

    briansworms Junior Member

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    We can't turn back time. Red Wrigglers are all over the world now. It all should have been stopped 200 years ago. Many of the composting worms have sensitive skin and are unsuitable for soil. As mentioned we need to adjust not fight against what you cant win..
     
  12. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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    The article is not the best but Google Scholar shows the extent of research that has been done over the last several years into a very serious problem. There are numerous papers there that give an insight into the issue.
     
  13. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Pebble;

    Sorry for the confusion. Grahame had posted what I thought was a good analogy. I complimented him on it, but he edited it while I was typing my compliment, which left me with egg on my face. When he realized what had occurred he apologized . I kinda liked the one he took out. It made me laugh.

    Benjy
     
  14. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Hi Brian, do you believe that because cats are already in Australia, that it doesn't matter if people go and dump cats in native reserves? I think you may have missed what the actual problem is - fishermen dumping bait in forests. The dumping of a number of a species in a place where they will cause problems is something within the control of humans. It's not about 'fighting against what you can't win'. It's about appropriate behaviour in nature.
     
  15. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Hi Benjy, not sure if we are talking at cross purposes, but I meant that it doesn't work to compare this situation to climate change.
     
  16. briansworms

    briansworms Junior Member

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    What I am saying is we cant go back to change things. We need to manage the present. Fisherman should drop their bait in the water so the fish will eat it or take it home. Feral cats should be shot along with the other feral animals. We cant shoot every feral animal in Australia as it is not practical so they should be managed as best as possible. Not making the mistakes of the past is also good management. We will never win the battle to eradicate every non native animal in Australia.
     
  17. Benjy136

    Benjy136 Junior Member

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    Pebble;
    You are right, inasmuch as my first post was not an analogy. What I was trying to get across was that the so-called Scientists that have the most outrageous theories are the ones that get the most attention from the media of the time and are touted as gospel. The end result is either proposed or demanded action which either has no effect on the (so called) problem or actually exacerbates it through unintended consequences. When I used the word "analogy" I was speaking of Grahame's post, which he deleted before my post came up. Whew!

    I am in agreement that the majority of our ecological problems are brought about by GREED, IGNORANCE and carelessness and as long as there are immoral, greedy and ignorant people in this world that have the power to cause problems all we can do is try to educate whatever masses we can and shine a floodlight on evildoers in the hopes of reducing their effects by the sheer weight of the educated masses. I believe this site is attempting to take on a major role to that end, and it has been my good fortune to have been led here by Brian and chastened by others but mainly encouraged to make improvements in my surroundings and myself.

    That being said, I believe one of the best tools in education is HUMOR. Many a point has been brought home with a giggle or a laugh. What we are facing is not funny, so I like to find something humorous, odd, or even wonderful like the baby chooks in my new "chicken tractor" and their antics.
    I have to go now. Keep a light on for me

    Benjy
     
  18. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    I would go as far to suggest that it is not just the 'majority', but (as Bookchin described in the opening of this essay) 'nearly all'.

    Furthermore, as far as 'science' and 'scientists' are concerned: I would also like to suggest that by far the majority of scientific knowledge available today is sound, and that it is only through 'greed, ignorance and carelessness' that we fail to better understand how we can put that same sound knowledge to use for the benefit of all human and non-human life in the biosphere. If we shoot all of the scientific messengers because of a few 'bad' messages, then we run the risk of losing all of the 'good' messages, too.
     
  19. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Well, I can't find any decent logical scientific papers on this subject, however I did note 2 things from my research.

    1 - The problem seems contained to the U.S. Great Lakes area since over the last 10,000 years it evolved with no worms due to their death during the last ice age in that area.

    2 -


    3 - Local area Universities like Ohio have publications on how earthworm populations drop parasitic worm populations in given areas, and other benefits.

    So I am confused by this whole thing and suspect currently it is more a regional & propaganda problem.
     
  20. mouseinthehouse

    mouseinthehouse Junior Member

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