We just want to feed the World

Discussion in 'News from around the damp planet' started by Earth's Internet, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    This was the USDA report in their official blog. They just want to share scientific discovery with the poorer nations. Though no mention of GMOs is made, it is clear what the article was about. Never underestimate the power of a good smoke screen.

    Religion
    Politics
    Big Business(science)

    Ya gotta love em for the entertainment if nothing else.

    "Call to openness and transparency in government on an international stage" ? Hmmm


    This is where I miss Michaelangelica on these News Feed pages. He kept most informed on the interesting latest reportings

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  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    good to see it is shown that religion, big business and politics firmly in bed together.

    the call of the GMO wilds "we want to feed the world" add in poison as well.

    len
     
  3. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Here is an article that may interest you from December of last year - Why Bad Science Is Like Bad Religion

    Of course the faithful won't agree with these conclusions, but that's what makes it all religious in the end. Much of scientific understanding is religiously assumed faith statement making which in turn are dogmatically defended. Go figure!


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  4. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    don't really have to look at that EI, i know science and what people recognise as religions are bad for all of us, just many have no objectivity. keep in mind the science of evolution is a religion as is the science of climate change to name a couple.

    so folk like ourselves get venom pointed our way by those with no wide wisdom of things, living lives of denial.

    yep go figure hey? the most dogmatism comes from the science religions at least. they get worshiped though they have no evidence in hard fact to support their beliefs.

    oh! i did read the second paragraph the truth of truths science is like communism you toe the line or your out, no freedom of expression. the sciences are bothered that the masses may see with the light and show them up.

    len
     
  5. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Len, I really do feel for you. Your bitterness against the scientific community must sit like a burning hot ember in the pit of your stomach. I am genuinely sorry that even the most basic of scientific discovery - i.e. the theory of evolution - rubs so gratingly against your fragile belief structure. Honestly, if I could I would change the laws of physics and the principles of biological evolution to suit your world view, but I can't. It simply is not possible. Scientific enquiry is not your enemy, Len. Ignorance is. It genuinely hurts me, as a (social) scientist, to think that my life's work is such a great burden to you. All I can do is offer you my sincerest condolences.
     
  6. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    lol lol mark i dunno really?

    no i am not bitter i just like truth, of course the unproven theory of evolution rubs, i believe in creation that is why our life is good among all the bad, would like to see more have what we have but that is not up to us, we don't hate or detest, like the science side does, those climate change worshipers would behead all those against them if they could or that is the feeling they put out there, i am currently a banned bad person guest at one site, can you imagine that mark? no fried i don't hate you or anyone. the laws of physics(had them preached to me by a counselor one stage, it wasn't the truth of natural things and still isn't but again the barbed wire gets pretty uncomfortable if one fence sits so one takes point of being one side of eh fence or the other.

    now again mark judging others by ones own merits, you judge bitterness then from where i stand maybe it is the science worshipers pointing their bitterness our way. someone pointed out the bible may have been re-written 1500 years ago at least we have a book as such that others can accuse of being re-written, and if it was(yes it has been re-written) then it was by men for men to make their belief look genuine.

    our belief is not fragile we arer unshaken by the promoters of no contained truth science clap trapp.

    again you judge us to be ignorant most of us who believe you know not, you barely know me so again the judgement is by your merits.

    science is the poor mans enemy as we suffer higher and higher living costs to cove some carbon thing that is failing world wide, it cannot work even if you remove all cars boats planes and trucks along with power and manufacturing.

    not my world view exclusively many others out there the same millions maybe hundreds of thousand maybe. but more than what supports science the average person in the street may not believe in God but they do not believe science either. that's secularism at its best complete freedom from belonging to a community and living to its rules, no violence or crime.

    why you would think your life's toil is a burden to us i dunno? the only burden i have apart from living day to day is to try and get this chook house built. what you said almost sounds egotistical, is the wish to be a messiah?? we just want to live simply and affordably but science is blocking that for all in our socioeconomic group, most of whom probably have little knowledge of God these days.

    oh when we are dead we are dead, thought is gone, vision is gone, we enjoy no more sun rises, its that simple.

    so for your hurt we are sorry but surely it is self inflicted.

    len
     
  7. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    Len, please refer to this post. Regards, Mark
     
  8. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    yep! and?

    i can respect others i chat with but please don't expect me to respect faceless nameless individuals who have a goal of ego and to make life difficult to cover the ills caused by the higher echelon's.

    len
     
  9. milifestyle

    milifestyle New Member

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    G'Day, Len...

    Just wondering where do you fit into the Permaculture community exactly... ?

    I only ask as the last Christian I spoke to about Permaculture told me for want of a better word, to piss off because God gave them the resources to do what we want with and they would never run out... I hope thats not the overall opinion from most Christians about Permaculture...

    There just seems to be a mismatch between your Permaculture views, Christian views and you Anti-Climate Change view...

    Not that it matters... i'm just curious how you blend the 3 together into your daily life...
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    might be rude question eric, no matter on what grounds, how long have i been around?? and you feel you need to ask that. by community (broad claim) you mean this forum group.

    yes God did give us our providence and talents which we try to improve and help others without alienating others. we don't go in for uneccessary design concempts we utilise simple and work with nature, didn't stop a couple of tertiary types have a shot at me and no others came in defense but that's ok, another i knew he's dead now about 3 or so years(also was a geologist he didn't believe in creation either, his partner(not wife or common law) told us he didn't like looking death in the face) he reckoned to much emphasis on being seen to be different. no i don't need the gaia stuff. went to an intro' to pc 2 day course and most of it was what i knew along organic gardening.

    pity the head echelon here didn't do more to get it accepted by the masses before they chased the money hey.

    you probably used the term christian without proper wisdom and don't get caught judging and pigeon holing people so your comfort zone remains cuddly.

    you can worship climate change people expect me to provide answers but CC scientists only have to show speculation funny hey, no worries to me i know who i worship and why, the rest is all a con', so if i have no difficulties maybe you do?

    my advice don't judge me by others merits, ok?

    len
     
  11. annette

    annette Junior Member

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    Everyone is entitled to their beliefs without ridicule or goading. Len is not alone in his opposition to the evolution theory. Many spiritual teachers (not religious) also oppose it. Many are not alone in their belief in climate change, some scientists support it, some don't. Why argue about it?

    I had a near death experience ( yep down the tunnel, had some time on the other side and back I came) and thus have far different beliefs to most. Science does not support my experience but says it is just the brain acting up. I don't know and I don't care, my reality is mine as well as anyone else's is. Was it is a spiritual experience or just a scientific one or both? But what I do know is that nothing is accomplished by lowering our interactions with others to that of the slanging match. Judging others is a futile endeavour. Discernment is a different matter.

    Sorry I try to stay out of this stuff but I would like everyone to get along. Please.
     
  12. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day annette,

    yep hang onto your experience God bless

    the thing is those who worship the sciences, sorry only way i can explain it simply fail to believe there are masses against the theories.

    i don't want the agitation either

    len
     
  13. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    It is interesting that such a warped perverted view would be expressed by some professing to be Christian, though I must say not surprising since many have compromised beliefs to suit outside personal political and ideological worldview beliefs which certain work against any Christian unity as it was originally intended. Indeed, the Law given to ancient Israel had countless rules on caring for the land, animals, vegetation etc. Even the Sabbath day was a law for getting people to put aside business & materialistic pursuits and reflect on the spiritual side, which means working & meditating on the good qualities that should make up one's personality in the way husbands and wives treat each other, being good neighbour, worker, employer, etc , etc, etc. The Biblical record of Israel's failure to keep the Law and consequences that followed. It also records the blessings so to speak which resulted when they did keep the Law, relatively speaking. The same principles were carried over to Christianity, but of course the historical record since then has shown this has not been respected either.

    As far as evolution goes, it was actually the Nations of Christendom and especially it's religious leaders who promoted Darwinism and Evolution Theory as a means of justification for conquering what were considered inferior races by the Imperialistic occupation and colonization forces. Only recently have the Dutch Reformed Church and Anglican Churches apologized for their participation in Apartheid and your home grown "Stolen Generation" program there in Australia. Dare I say there may be future apologies for support in the Nazi Regime who used Social Darwinian principles to further the "Final Solution" ? I guess we'll see.

    My main point here is that whatever the misguided falling short conduct of those claiming to be adherents to Biblical Standards and Principles when caring for fellow man and Nature, they never the less go against their own holy book in such expressions as you related above.
    nature



    This again is a puzzle and I think has more to do with politics & Ideological (actually both sides of this issue are guilty) differences more than anything else. Much of the blame for mis-communication on climate change should be put squarely on those to promote it. The term "Global Warming" was a big mistake as the warming Temps are merely a symptom of a greater problem. Anyone who has observed nature for decades should indeed be aware of the changes that have taken place and realize something bigger is wrong here. Again I blame much of the Scientific Elites who have always had a problem communicating to the average man on important issues. Dumping much of the intellect speak and avoiding talking down to others in condescending manner would have gone much further if they created terminologies and illustrations most people could relate to. Much of the mechanisms involved in climate change are never truly dealt with. Yes the pollution pumped into the air is a big problem, but it's only one component. Much of the so-called Eco-Countries like the one I reside in are totally hypocritical in the way they carry on business across the globe. These Climate Conventions are a joke, since most of what they talk about are their economies. I'm actually convinced that the majority of nations consider global ruin a far better consequence(or lesser evil) than the civil unrest that would result from their respective citizenry. This is now taking place across the E.U., but over here in the states where I am visiting for a couple of months, none of this is being reported on as it is over there.

    Still, the Religious side denying climate change is strange none the less. But given the history of their development, should be a total surprise.


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  14. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    EI seems like dealing at the fringe of bigotry and lack of wisdom and knowledge, the same causes all sorts of discrimination.

    your judging what MILF says happened there si no rock solid evidence to support the statement, anyone can say they are that very broad and wide netted term ""christian"", now being used and here to build up hate against other people based on fear mongering.

    in your own words this unknown person professes to be a certain something which fits the trend of here. because you worship sciences and hang off each breathe they make then any other worship is anti you?

    you show much ignorance on the sabbath law, been around for 6k years. yes we live by ethics that tell us how to treat each other and live with all peoples, where is your moral code?

    again evolution is neither accepted or worshiped by those who worship God as per His commandments, go figure hey this 6k years further on.

    i'll leave you with your boxed in thoughts on climate change, even if you stopped all carbon pollution it would have no effect on the climate, now regrow the habitat and our future generations will see how wise we were. and yes the majority of big time polluting nations are never going to come on board but in token alone, they can after all now see australia going down the gurgler, no cars, boats, buses, trucks planes or industry mass degradation of what might be termed a livable lifestyle.

    again you mix religion with the worship of God, count in their all the religions not just the pious claiming one eg.,. the sciences(rule their members with and iron fist) the myth's roman, greek and egyptian in there a sun god called gaia.

    good luck hope you enjoy the misery and violence coming our way.

    oh! the common masses need hard copy facts, not experiments that naturally support the mathematical theory. i say for all you do not come close to grasping that the masses are against you, maybe the trend of the come back of the jakabeen cap may be an indicator to what happened in france in those blood lust days.

    please don't judge others by ones own merits.

    len
     
  15. Grahame

    Grahame Senior Member

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    I have no idea what is going on here, I am so confused.

    This is the way I see it.

    Charity begins at home. You get your own system of supplying enough for yourself in a sustainable way and already you are on the way to solving any lack in the rest of the world. Once you have you own system in order then you can begin to export the surplus in what ever form that takes (food, knowledge, experience etc). If all the people working for OXFAM for example just lived in a sustainable way they would probably have more lasting effect than sticking band-aids on to problems created by the very unsustainable lives many of them go on living.

    God and its existence or non-existence is largely irrelevant. The messages of God are the important thing, the ideas of living a 'right life'. If we proved tomorrow that god didn't exist it wouldn't make any difference to the way we need to live.

    Got to go, but I think all this God talk is wasteful.
     
  16. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Well to be honest Grahame, believe it or not I agree with you. But I was actually addressing the issues brought up in "Milifestyle's" post which I feel had several great valid points. I was actually pointing out that the Law of Moses given in the Biblical record did have several important land custodianship points, and when he brought up the point about that anomymous Christian which was a horrible retort, I wanted to clarify exactly what the record stated. Unfortunately things have been misrepresented by the conduct of the very ones claiming to represent themselves as Bible believers and followers. I think one of the biggest problems is that most religious beliefs by those claiming to believe the Bible is that God will one day destroy the Earth and they will be taken to heaven to another paradise and the fact is that is NOT what the Bible says. Unfortunately, most people DO NOT read and study their Bibles and depend on religious clergy to do their religious study and thinking for them. In truth, the Bible actually condemns this lazy attitude.


    But back top the OP, the covert story put out by the USDA is a total shame of the true agenda for wanted to share the so-called enlightened science.

    BTW, I have a post I started last year in draft form, but have held off wondering if it would offend actually both sides of this issue with regard religion and science. Maybe it's a good time to finish it and publish. It's a comparison between the way Scientific Study was conducted when Europe's Christendom ran Academic learning and how modern day Secular Hierarchy compares now. I see now difference between the two and the Natural world has paid a heavy price from both side. The title is "A Paradigm Shift (revolutionary science) or More of the Same ?"


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  17. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    The people who support a literal interpretation of the bible, Young Earth Creationists (of which 41% make up the USA population), can do none other than deny the existence of human-induced climate change. For nothing other than a god, according to the bible, has the power to change Earth's principles of biology and the laws of physics (see, for example: great flood, parting of the red sea, burning bush, walking on water, talking snake, virgin birth, turning water into wine, etc.). For this cohort of people, to not deny the existence of human-induced climate change, is to deny the very existence of a god. They are locked - for many, for the remainder of their lives - into a position of fear, and one that is ultimately based on ignorance. To educate one's self as to the real nature of the universe, means the biblical literalist would also have to isolate one's self from the remainder of the YEC herd. For most this means they would be shunned by family, and by community (and in the case of the USA, nearly half of one's fellow country-person). For the people affected, it's a terrible position to be in. It's very sad, but also very true. It is also the reason why the USA is considered to be one of the most ideologically (both politically, and religiously) divided (polemic) nations on Earth, and for certain part of the reason why it struggles so much as a nation to respond to the threat of human-induced climate change. The captains of industry, the Green House Mafia, they understand the god-factor, and it is for this reason why they contribute so much to perpetuating the creationist fallacy which in turn keeps the nation divided. They do this by supporting god-worshipping practices (religious 'aid' programs, for example), and in return paying little interest (read: domestic tax) toward a free, universal and secular education of the people.

    I agree ... adios amigos.
     
  18. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    pretty basic EI,

    you have within your head th interpretations as used by the apostate religions claiming to be with God, but they are not representative of those of us maybe i dunno 200k or less people, who worship the truth.

    i have misrepresented nothing so who did. anyhow one of your colleagues has stated talk of God is wasteful, so back to trying to sell your scientific worship that and i say again, the masses have no belief in.

    so just to clear another mis-statement yes there is climate change been going on since the beginning and sped up now because of wealthy moguls, raping our habitat. there si no way you can demonstrate in hard copy believable terms that can show without fear of contradiction that cutting CO2 will do anything but make life more expensive and increase unemployment. but that is it hey the god's you worship lead you with false promises. evolution is unproven as well go figure hey? all they have is theory and ever changing dating parameters what are they up to now plasma or something 8 or? they need to change parameters to fit their story into that is not integrity, adding ')'s is waht impresses tehm and their worshippers.

    that is why i think michael, said when i said i heard a young aboriginal lady talking to an audience and she said "that her people the aboriginals could not have been here anymore than maybe 5k years, and if that be true what is wrong with that analogy by her? none of us know anyone who was anywhere 5 or so k years ago.

    so keep pushing climate change down the throat of the common man, you who believe have not sold it yet, and whilst it is only australia making a fool of itself, china is celebrating a burgeoning middle class explosion.

    please i've asked before show your evidence the irrefutable kind, what change should we look for when CO2 is controlled while we have no homes and starving bodies.

    still teh religious term is used but none seem to really understand what it means and who it points at.

    good luck

    len
     
  19. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Yep, & yep. Let's get back to the Permaculture.
     
  20. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    These comments are interesting and mirror the attitude of the apostate clergy of Ancient Israel who fought against God's own Prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel who were sent to warn the people of the coming desolation of their homeland for their corrupt ways. Yet, the Apostate Clergy who were trying to hold onto what was left of their fading power and influence over the common people were the countering what both Jeremiah and Ezekiel's message of land ruination. Here's what the religious leaders of that day were saying. All of you reading this (religious/Agnostic/Atheist), see if you can't pick up on the uncanny similarity of the words back then with what is being parroted today.

    Ezekiel 13:10
    Good News Translation (GNT)



    Other translations use the words "saying, there is 'peace' when there is no peace". The wall being spoken of was a phony fraudulent wall of protection of mere words for which they were trying to convince themselves that there was no danger. They were in effect building a flimsy badly engineered wall of protection to console and protect themselves and to mask any imperfections, cheating and flaws of this pathetic wall of protection, they covered it over with whitewash. That could be more illustrative today of what ecological disaster deniers are doing by attempts to gloss over the very real dangers of mankind's bad custodianship of earth.

    Nature is the one shoving climate change down everyone's throat Len and it is the result of human error. The messengers have nothing to do with that. CO2s are merely a tiny symptom of the greater problem. The world's religious clergy should bare the heaviest blood-guilt for what is presently happening to our natural world and human society as a whole. Must be why the last book of your Holy Bible , Revelation has this to say:

    Back to GMOs, third world developing nations should be taking notes on what the true intentions are of the Industrial Agricultural Nation's words saying they only want to share knowledge with their poorer unfortunate fellow man in what they consider backwards countries. You know, the very same countries they created way back when ?


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