Unmutual's Quest

Discussion in 'Members' Systems' started by Unmutual, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    I figured I'd go ahead and start making a diary of sorts. I've finally gotten some money, and I'm looking for that deforested piece of land. I hope to buy this land outright and not have to take out a loan, we'll see. So, with permaculture in mind, I've added a few more restrictions to the list:

    1) 210ft + above sea level. Worse case scenario that I've seen is a rise of 70 meters in sea level. I don't want this property under water in 86 years. I'm looking very far ahead.
    2) Out of hurricane range even with a 210ft sea level rise. Personally, I'm sick of hurricanes and hurricane season in general. I can see why fishermen and farmers would live in the Greater New Orleans area, but urbanization is/was silly. Funny how you figure these things out after you buy a house.
    3) Not in a tornado hot spot. So far scientists haven't found any link between climate change and tornadoes. So I can only go with what I have and I don't want to rebuild every 10 years or so.
    4) Not in a flood zone. I don't want to be at the bottom of a watershed or close to any creek that would flood a homesite on a regular basis. This may be tricky since I can't control what happens off my property.
    5) Giver or take, 40 acres. I figure that a single human could live off 5 acres pretty easily. So with 20 acres going back to nature(zones 4-5), this should be a good target. I'd like to get this target smaller, to maybe 3 acres. We'll see.
    6) Road access. You'd be surprised how much land is out there that either does not have access, or requires an easement through somebody else's property.
    7) Has to be within driving range of New Orleans for a couple of reasons. First, I don't want to spend an entire day getting there while I learn the land, etc. Secondly, I have family in this area and they've all expressed interest in using this as a hurricane evacuation site. I'm leaning heavily towards anything that's an "easy" road trip, like jump on interstate 59 and just drive.
    8 ) Internet and phone service. Wireless is fine for the phone, but I'm not willing to give up the internet just yet. If more the internet becomes a dangerous cesspool of viruses, then I may not have much problem. I think satellite internet will be in my cards.

    Things that I'd like:

    1) A north facing slope somewhere. Of course southern slope is a necessity, but mushrooms tend to grow better with shade, and I'd really like to cultivate some mushrooms! Granted a deep forest will do the same thing, but a north slope would still be nice(hell, might even have a "summer" home on it so it's cooler).
    2) Rock, stone, slate, something besides mud! I know the south is "blessed" with clay and sand, but some stone would be nice too.
    3) Spring, waterfall AND creek! That would be awesome, but I'm fairly sure I'll have to create 2 of the 3 myself. Hopefully afforesting tops of hills will do the trick. I always think about the old greek myths about nymphs associated with springs and waterfalls..piss them off(cut down her favorite tree for example) and the nymph leaves and the water stops flowing.

    Wiggle Room:

    1) I would be willing to buy less than 40 acres. I've seen some nice 20-25 acre properties online too.
    2) Utility hookup is a bonus. I'm not really looking for it, and some people drop the price if the closest electricity is miles away.
    3) Gravel road access. Looks like I'll end up getting a truck anyway, so a gravel road may be acceptable. I was surprised at how many country roads are still dirt/gravel roads.

    Problems:

    Chiefly wild boar. They're everywhere down here. Some of them are 1000lbs. I'm not pro-gun and wasn't even thinking about getting one until I started to read about this issue. Unfortunately, the guns that seem to be good at stopping a boar before it eats you are also the guns that most people hate: assault rifles. I seem to have an option of shotgun with a slug shell instead of buck shot. I'm not particularly thrilled with either. But you can reuse shotgun shell casing, so it's a little green I guess...

    Things to learn still:

    Too many to list. Luckily I've been soaking in a lot of information over the last few years(thanks!) so I'm not going in totally blind.

    So with this list also in mind, I've narrowed down the search area to Tennessee, Mississippi and Alabama. Middle Tennessee has a few added attractions. If you buy acreage, chances are very good that you'll have some surface water(creek, spring or even a waterfall!). Also, when you reach central Tennessee, the temperatures drop, which is always nice(90F average to mid to low 80's F average). Northern Mississippi and Northern Alabama also seem to have surface water, but the temperature doesn't drop.

    Most of the land I've already looked at seems to be the wrong aspect. I guess somebody went around and bought up all the south slopes of those hills...But every now and again, I find something that has 5-10 acres of southern slope that could at least be used for crops that require all that day light plus a small home or three.

    So I'll keep plodding along, looking at websites and hoping I can pin-point the property with google earth so I can transfer the location to Sketchup. BTW, sketchup is great, you can add 3d terrain and put topographical lines on that terrain so you can see things like spots that may hold water without much work, pinch points for dam locations, solar aspect and the like. Too bad more real estate agents don't put up better information. I guess it's a good way to get practice though.

    Anyway, most of my work so far has just been looking at listings that are within price range and acreage tolerance. I then try to give it a quick one over to see how this land could be developed, just to get hone my skills. It's too bad that I can't visit these properties whenever I feel like it, but we're looking at an 8hr + drive just to get anywhere, so that pretty much means that I need to take time off work. It's a real pain at times, but I'm not going to rush in to anything either. I won't be able to live there for another 6+ years anyway.

    A couple thoughts however. Most property listings do not express permaculture items(not surprisingly, but rather irritatingly). Views, power, distance to malls, etc. still dominates the mindset. Also, you may not get timber rights(usually stated if you don't have timber rights) and mineral rights are almost guaranteed not to be included(only lists if you get mineral rights, or the option to buy). Alabama seems to have a stream management system, which I like. They don't allow the cutting of timber in a zone around a stream. It may be 100-200ft, I've never tried to measure it to be honest. But I find that cool. Finally, the key word to doing whatever you want on the property(not really sure what the parameters are, but it's usually used in conjunction to living off grid) is Unrestricted. When I get closer to buying property, I'll have to dig a little deeper in to exactly what unrestricted means in regards to land and the State government.
     
  2. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    That's exciting! Enjoy the process and take your time.
     
  3. Possum

    Possum Junior Member

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    Enjoy hunting for the perfect spot!

    Re unmade roads, they can be annoying but also good. I live only 20km from the nearest town but the council based in that town don't want to fix the roads until they become completely impassable. If they were asphalt roads deteriorating we would be stuck, but because they are dirt/gravel roads one neighbour with lots of tractors comes along and grades the roads from time to time. The road which leads only to our property gets a yearly load of crushed brick to fill in the holes - that's DH who does that, the council won't touch it even when it's impassible!

    ETA: Dirt roads can also be good for stopping snobby people with too many expensive toys from visiting. To come to my house you have to travel along about 500m of dirt/gravel roads. But that is too much for one person and he won't visit us. Win!
     
  4. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    While pouring over possible land, I came across something very interesting this morning. The USGS has geological map overlays for google earth(I use the hell out of google earth). https://mrdata.usgs.gov/geology/state/state.php?state=TN is the one for Tennessee. There is a map legend, but you don't need it since if you click on an area with the overlay, it will explain what you're looking at anyway. You should probably still test the soils anyway, especially if you buy something right on the border of 2 different soil types.

    Also, https://www.mytopo.com/maps/index.cfm will give you a better idea of topography than google sketchup(I think google counts tree canopy for topography sometimes, but it's still close).
     
  5. sweetpea

    sweetpea Junior Member

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    Unumutual, you've got an exciting project! Maybe just a couple of suggestions? I'm an owner of acreage, and what has been just dumb luck on my part to have gotten was WATER. We've got a spring that runs all year. A creek makes you bit vulnerable to whatever the folks upstream are dumping into it. Don't believe what folks tell you, "Oh, yeah, there's plenty of water around here." Find out from neighbors to that property how deep their wells are, what is going on with the water. You can change the trees, etc., but you can't change the water situation. If you don't have drinkable water all year 'round, the property isn't worth it.

    If it has a WELL it needs to be inspected to make sure it won't cave in, and won't costs a fortune to run a pump 24/7, which is very expensive. Make sure it's a year-round well. There will be a minimum required if you want to build a house, maybe 5 gallons a minute.

    Actually, in our northern hemisphere, you'll want a south-facing slope so your plants will get plenty of sun all day, you can take advantage of passive solar heat in a house and sheds, and so no mold forms from cold and wet conditions. Shopping for property in the summer or dry season is often misleading because it's what goes on there in the wettest, least sunny and worst weather parts of the year that you will have to contend with. You can plant tall canopy trees and create a food forest if you want more shade. But a northern slope won't give you any options for change from October through April. We have a west facing slope that gets no morning sun and is cold, windy and way less productive than the south-facing slope.

    Make sure that 210 feet is high enough so if you have to drill for a well you don't hit salt water. It often infiltrates inland at deep levels, so there should be information about that available. And that geological information should also tell you how deep the topsoil is, and what the layers of soil are down to about 50-feet. Our place is about 10 feet of clay over sandstone, and the clay can saturate and slide.

    Look for old slides on the property, steep cutout of a hillside that creates a hollowed-out spot with a mound of soil below. Even if it happened 200 years ago, it could happen again. They won't let you build on a slide, so there needs to be a building site with ground rock not too deep below. It is your biggest investment, you wouldn't want to build on a slide anyway, it's always the first to saturate and have running water and be muddy in winter. Makes it miserable to drive to or walk around. That's also something the neighbors could tell you, how deep are the piers on foundations.

    As far as wireless internet, you can get a MiFi that gives you wireless connection for your computer. We had a phone landline for years, and the steep slope and gravity was constantly pulling at the physical line, disconnecting it, ants got in the connection boxes and corroded the connections, hornets, too, it got damp and corroded. It was a nightmare, especially when it's stormy and dark, going down the hill at night to try to find out what had happened, ugh, I'm glad those days are over. I'm so glad to be wireless now.

    Prepare to spend a lot of money on your driveway and its upkeep for the rest of your life. There is nothing more satisfying than a driveway that works in the muddiest of seasons, and nothing more miserable than trying to maintain a bad one that costs a fortune in gravel that keeps sinking in and disappearing. Buy the biggest gravel you can get, 1 1/2" works in our clay, but 20 years later it needs gravel every other year. Gravel trucks won't come out when it's muddy, so you're on your own until it dries out and they can bring more gravel. The rain water that rushes down a hill creates erosion on the driveway, and can take regular gravel rock all the way to the bottom.

    And you're right about not being too far from a town with a big hardware store! Ha!

    Hope this helps. :)
     
  6. Bryant RedHawk

    Bryant RedHawk Junior Member

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    Good luck and have fun locating your piece of heaven. It only took us five years of searching to find our piece.

    Just so you know, and incase you didn't already know, Assault Rifles are not readily available to the public. Assault Rifles are select fire weapons, which require a BATF permit ($200.00). They are not what you would be buying, which will be semi-automatic only, making it a rifle that looks like an Assault Rifle. The caliber I would recommend for hogs, deer and other larger game animals (Bear) is a .308 the ammo is readily available and has enough punch to drop a 1000 pound, charging boar. I would also recommend you think about a large bore pistol such as a .44 magnum, in case you don't see that charging boar until it's to close for the rifle or for when you don't have that rifle in hand. It is a fact of life that when you have dangerous game that can come at you at any time, you best be prepared to help it to the creator, least you are the one going to the creator.

    I am only 4.5 miles from the nearest town but on my land I always have a 13 round 9mm pistol on my hip and my wife always has her .380 with laser sight with her. We have packs of wild dogs and coyotes that roam our area, fortunately we have not seen any hogs as of yet.

    I wish you all the luck with locating your desired land, it is an adventure well worth all the trouble.
     
  7. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Yep, but I'm also counting on rainfall collection. I'll also be putting in a large amount of ponds along with some dams by the end of everything. I don't mind pumping water uphill. I don't, however, plan on using well water since there is a lot of fracking going on around the south. Well, unless I want to set my water on fire that is!

    The sun angle down here is almost directly overhead(I'm at 89 in New Orleans). So summer crops should do fine unless they're on a northern slope and also depending on how sharp of a drop in elevation for east/west slopes. West slopes would be hotter than east slopes, and most plants prefer there mornings sunny and not so much the afternoon. Winter crops(which is all of the cole crops, carrots, onions, etc - so pretty much leafy greens) don't require as much sun to develop. Of course, it will probably be a lot of trial and error for this type of microclimate, but it could very well extend my cool weather growing season(and I prefer the cool weather crops personally).

    Geology is one of those things I'll be picking up. I'm comfortable with my hometown geology(river delta), but I have untapped resources to get the bottom line on soils later on.
    Yeah, I'll definitely be looking in to my own tractor equipment for road upkeep(there are a few >35hp tractors that have all the good attachments). As far as the phone goes, we have the same problems with a lot of places at work. We get fog/high humidity often, and that stuff doesn't really care about gravity. It's always messing up multiple station's phone lines hehe.
     
  8. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Thanks for the weapon info. I'd rather shoot wildlife with a camera, but I've heard too many stories about feral hogs. If I can figure out a way to deal with them without resorting to killing them, I probably will do the non-lethal method. But wild hog sausage is pretty damn tasty.
     
  9. Bryant RedHawk

    Bryant RedHawk Junior Member

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    Yes it is :) very tasty. I have asked some of my friends that live in southern Arkansas and have wild hog problems, they tell me trapping in heart shaped hog traps is what works best for capturing the critters. When I lived in California I went hog hunting several times, the scrub brush we hunted mandated using a pistol instead of a rifle, I bought a S&W 29, 61/2" barrel, it worked very nicely out of a cross the chest holster. If a hog charges you, it isn't going to stop until it has gotten you and hogs do eat people, according to stories I've been told. You can go to the Arkansas Fish and Game website for plans of hog traps I believe. It's more humane and more effective than hunting them for control, but the guys I know with hog problems say you will never not have a hog problem once there is one.
     
  10. Unmutual

    Unmutual Junior Member

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    Recent Lessons Learned:

    Put farm somewhere in the description/name of the property and you can increase the resale value x4(the same trick works if you have 15 acres of lawn and call it a pasture apparently).

    It's easier to get a loan for a house(with acreage) than it is to get one for just land. House loan: 30 years. Land loan: 10 years. So it's also easier to repay, though you have to borrow more money. I've been debating buying a house with acreage just because it's a place to stay while working on the land on weekends/holidays without having to worry about connecting power and water, or putting together a "shack" or worrying about building codes from the get-go.

    I've come across some houses that have been around since the 1900's-1920's, but I've only come across one house that was angled right for solar power. I've found 2 decent places for ~$120k. Neither is perfect. I'd rank both as a D or C if I'm being honest with myself. So I'll keep looking.
     
  11. Bryant RedHawk

    Bryant RedHawk Junior Member

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    Good luck, you will find what you want if you just keep looking. It only took us 5 years of looking actively to locate our place. Check with your Commissioner of State Lands office. There are nice properties that can be had for payment of back taxes.
     
  12. Allan Babb

    Allan Babb New Member

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    Had trouble getting my old account to work, so here we are with a new one. Decided to just use my real name while I was at it.

    I found 17 acres. According to the USDA, the soil is:
    While the soil isn't exactly perfect, I can deal with sandy soils. Just give me 3 years and some biomass. There seems to be one place on the property that might be pond worthy. I'll have to keep my eye on it.

    Now here's the interesting part that many of you North American people might be interested in: Walthall County, Mississippi, USA has no regulations outside of Tylertown city limits, with the exception of septic tanks(state thing). You can build whatever you want in rural Walthall County. Mud hut? Fine. Tent? Fine. Want to do all the plumbing and electrical work yourself? Fine. Want to build a wizard's tower and shoot fireworks from a staff at passers-by(some call me Tim!)? Fine. Well, except the firework thing. Your insurance company might have other ideas though, but that's another story(or not if you built a small house that's easily replaceable). I'm fairly sure that this kind of thing goes on in most Mississippi counties, but I've only had it verified in Walthall. Though I'm fairly sure that if you get out of the cities in the US, you get out of the codes and other petty rules. It would still be smart to talk with a builder/architect though, if this is your first rodeo.

    Now for the observation and to plant some trees in the obvious places.
     

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