The Permaea Manifesto is Looking for Permie-Crowdsourced Editing!

Discussion in 'Permaculture Groups, Contacts Activities Anounceme' started by Caelan MacIntyre, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Caelan MacIntyre

    Caelan MacIntyre Junior Member

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    Hi All,

    I have just finished the second draft of Permaea's Manifesto/Intro and am asking for help in editing, section-(re-)titling and/or rewriting portions of it; as well as constructive criticism and suggestions for additions, including links and images.

    I want to keep it as short, simple and as easy to understand and appreciate as possible.

    Naturally, everyone with a contribution that makes it will be credited and maybe even those who simply give it a try.

    If you would like any of the original files, such as with regard to the graphics, please let me know.

    Thanks and here it is:

    http://permacultureglobal.org/post_projects/6100

    ~ Caelan
     
  2. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Caelan,
    I think your entire essay/manifesto can be boiled down to this one image you posted:
    [​IMG]
    Very powerful!
     
  3. Caelan MacIntyre

    Caelan MacIntyre Junior Member

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    Yes I think so, Bill.
    It would be nice, though, if I knew if Permaea's manifesto has been read or not by PRI and whether they wish to publish it or not. How long must Permaea's manifesto wait for care of people?
     
  4. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    I have no way of knowing ... I (and the other mods here) are but tiny cogs who have volunteered to help eliminate spam from the forums and keep such work from the PRI staff.

    Note: these are my own personal observations and beliefs and most likely do not reflect those of the PRI.
    Your essay is quite interesting. I have previously read all of your references and links in my own questing. While I applaud your work and vision, I personally believe that such a call to action has historically been accomplished from the bottom-up, person to person as in labor union organizing (or the fight club!). I cannot think of an instance where a top-down call to action for the type of grassroots change you're advocating succeeded. Maybe you have examples?
    My own approach is one of "attraction, not promotion", aiming at influencing others by my actions and deeds until a critical mass of similar-minded folk is reached, at which time the change of perspective you indicate will occur almost spontaneously.
    None of this is to discourage your work or views, merely offering my opinions.
    I want to make that "Organize" image into a bumper sticker!
     
  5. 9anda1f

    9anda1f Administrator Staff Member

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    This post by John Michael Greer contains some of the elements behind why I don't think a top-down approach will work: http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-cimmerian-hypothesis-part-two.html

     
  6. Caelan MacIntyre

    Caelan MacIntyre Junior Member

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    Permaea is bottom-up!

    PERMAEA IS NOT A TOP-DOWN APPROACH, BILL!

    And I resent your categorization! I am also inclined to resent the lack of response from PRI Australia for both my article submission as well as my subsequent inquiry about it, although I am trying my darnedest to temper it.

    "A bottom-up approach is the piecing together of systems to give rise to more complex systems, thus making the original systems sub-systems of the emergent system." ~ Wikipedia

    This is precisely what Permaea is and seeks to do! I specifically mention off the shelf parts and many systems/groups and you even reflect it with the image!

    We are NOT going to change if we look for every excuse, rationalization and outright falsehood not to!

    John Michael Greer doesn't offer guest posts on his blog and is very specific about it by the way:
    "The Archdruid Report doesn't accept guest posts. Don't even ask." ~ JMG (top of blog page on right)

    On the other hand, Permaea (and manifesto)-- or however you wish to call it-- is per permaculture principles, and says so via the manifesto which is even relatively open-source and the attempt is being made to have its editing/writing crowd-sourced to boot. Even PRI seems to revolve around some kinds of nation-state (thus, top-down) capitulations like with their geolocations and money systems, complete with Richard Branson and his so-called private island 'permaculture' pursuits as an article on the PRI blog!

    Do you, Geoff Lawton or David Holmgren want fast permaculture uptake or not? Well I'm betting it's not going to happen by a long shot. Not like this.

    Where is Bill Mollison and Craig Mackintosh by the way, or at least how are they? They seem to have just disappeared.
     
  7. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Bill M. doesn't post here, ever, that I have seen, and has been sick for quiet a while.

    Craig, no clue.

    As for what you wrote, I can't read it fully because all I keep feeling is increasing anger as I read it, not sure why. I guess I will try again in a few days.
     
  8. BelindaKate

    BelindaKate Junior Member

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    I'm just a newbie, so feel free to disregard my comments. I'd like to take a crack at giving some critique on the article as well as perhaps why there hasn't been a large-scale uptake of the manifesto.

    The article as a whole is a tiresome read due to the abundant run-on sentences. For those (like myself) who make a concerted effort to read this wall of words, it's difficult to understand what you're writing. To write an effective article, you need to make sure it has structure:
    > An introduction that outlines what's to be covered- the purpose of the article.
    > A body that is divided appropriately into concise ideas (this body should also have a common purpose and logical progression).
    > A conclusion that reflects the introduction, and emphasizes a call-to-action (what that call-to-action is depends on the article).

    The permea manifesto has no discernible structure, and instead comes across as a long-winded rant. And given the importance of the message you're trying to get across, this needs to change!

    I feel the same way, and I'm sure many permaculturists feel this way.

    What's being proposed seems like a very "us versus them" mentality, and I don't understand how this fits into permaculture's general mentality of inclusiveness. As far as I can tell, permaculture generally seeks to attract people to positive change. The way the manifesto is written, you're actively criticizing the general populace's way of life, and seek to create a separate culture that shuns everything about "normal civilization" (and then overturn that normal civilization through numbers). The way I see it (and I do admit that I'm a newbie to permaculture), it's unlikely we'll be able to win over new followers by demonizing the population as a whole. The saying "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar" comes to mind.

    I feel this is possibly one of the reasons the manifesto hasn't been picked up on a large scale.

    Wait, I'm confused.
    You demonize nation-states/top-down, money systems. Then you say that PRI revolves around these principles. But then you seem to want PRI and top permaculturists (apparently top-down) to promote your manifesto?

    I can't read it fully because of the issues I mentioned above. Then there's the issue of apparently (and I say "apparently" because I'm admittedly new to the philosophies of top permaculturists) of using quotes out of context. For example, when Holmgren was encouraging people to focus on freeing themselves from debt, I'm pretty sure he wasn't telling people to abandon their debts and the monetary system as a whole.


    Rather than get angry when people misunderstand what you write or seemingly ignore your manifesto, try to understand what might be putting people off. I think this will go a long way to helping you spread your message.
     
  9. Beaverlee

    Beaverlee Junior Member

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    My opinion is like most others - everyone has one !
    I couldn't get through the first page.
     
  10. grantvdm

    grantvdm Junior Member

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    Hi Caelan,

    I also tried to read your manifesto today, but have to agree with the rest of the guys. It is a very difficult read and I did not understand half of what I was reading to be honest. I think Belinda has a point. First get a logical flow of the information that you want to share by following her suggestion on the structure. This would make the read much lighter and bring your point across much stronger.

    I do however agree with you on a point, that it is quite frustrating that the PRI takes so long to respond to things lately (since Craig left...wish I also knew why he left...there's still some open ends on my side as well...), but the best we can do as individuals is use the knowledge that we have gained through our PDCs (or whatever other means) to implement projects that, as 9anda1f mentioned, use a force of "attraction, not promotion".

    People respond best to things that they can see is working. To them (and to myself at this moment), working a 9 to 5 job is putting food on the table for myself and my family. It is not an easy task to just quit your job one day and then just continue living off air. There needs to be a transition period. I am currently going through this transition. Its tough, and frustrating at times (I'm a chemical engineer destroying the planet on a uranium mine), but my family needs a shelter, cloths and food. So I'm sticking it out, but transitioning at the same time, and one day I hope my example will be able to get others to follow suite.

    My two cents...
     
  11. Bryant RedHawk

    Bryant RedHawk Junior Member

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    It is my belief that anyone who writes should be able to use the vernacular language instead of profusely sprinkling ridiculous amounts of words most would need a dictionary to understand. It is far easier to stir minds when the minds you are trying to reach can readily grasp what you say. When I started reading your manifesto I immediately saw someone who was trying to impress me with their use of large words, that is an immediate put off to just about anyone.

    As others have stated, attack is not the best way to influence people's minds towards change. Unless the change you seek is that of disdain and anger, then the approach taken is backwards to what you seek as your goal.

    As an example let me quote your article and then offer a reconstruction.

    "In a fundamentally-unethical, irredeemable construct as this current system, practically any significant improvement that doesn't somehow get hijacked, distorted or crushed seems utopian."
    I think more people would understand something such as:
    "In the current governmental system, which has become rife with unethical behavior by corrupt elected officials, any improvement that isn't hijacked for the benefit of some small special interest group will seem utopian."

    An other example.

    "And an especially dystopian system is one that is not recognized as such by enough people and is accepted as normal or functional, as per such stories as The Matrix and The Allegory of The Cave; one in which few do little to counter and transcend; and one that some defend and uphold, sometimes with fatal consequences."

    This one I believe is misused completely. To quote Webster; "A dystopia is an imaginary community or society that is undesirable or frightening."

    So what you are saying is that you are referencing an imaginary community, but you are talking about real people in a real society are you not?
    The very real problem I believe you are trying to get people to see is that the current society has become one mimicking the behavior of the ostrich who lays his head on the sand in hopes that the predator will not see him. Complacency is the real enemy, In the time of President Reagan these folks were referenced as "the silent majority" a term that actually means those who chose to do nothing to effect change. Interestingly enough, they are still present and still doing nothing.

    These trends continue through the part I was able to get through. If I were a literary agent I would toss this back to the sea of ill-written manuscripts put forth by ill equipped, desperate, want to be a writer types that submit poor writing, convinced they have written the great novel. Scientific writers also need to be aware of the rules and they, of all people, must follow them for their writing is not meant to entertain but to inform.

    The myriad of run-on sentences along with poor punctuation tell that the writer is ill-equipped for the task. You first need to learn to write well. Then if your lucky you may be taken seriously and published.
     
  12. Caelan MacIntyre

    Caelan MacIntyre Junior Member

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    Hi guys,

    Thanks for your input... (I am looking for an actual edit and/or rewrite, perhaps ideally hereon with a practical workgroup)

    Perhaps that is part of the idea... (but maybe rewrite it as you're reading it, such as if you or another wants to style-nitpick, while keeping its core ideas/content/gists intact)

    In one video I caught online some time ago, to paraphrase Bill Mollison in it, apparently with regard to wild animals running up against human-made barriers that interfered with their migration patterns and with some dying in the process, 'It is fury that drives me.'

    Anger is of course part of the human landscape and, presumably like any good permie worth their salt, I don't intend on ignoring/denying that aspect of the landscape.

    The catching-flies-with-honey-versus-vinegar meme/dichotomy seems about as ridiculous or imprecise as what any relatively-casual observation in the real world would attest. Ditto with 'us-versus-them'.

    Permaea and its manifesto is entirely new; permaculture is not. Permaculture seems to need some kind or kinds of push in particular directions and that is what is being attempted with Permaea. Because I have my serious doubts whether permaculture will get anywhere soon enough-- honey or otherwise.

    And as I've already written under an article hereon, 'another kind of permanent culture is a dead one'.

    I don't write it for fun, and would rather just be enjoying nature rather than witnessing this fraud-for-a-culture destroying it and our enjoyment of it.
    But if you can't get past its style-- its 'anti-glitter' and 'anti-candy-coating' and ostensible run-ons and so on-- then you may do well to simply consider its core gist/content, which 9anda1f has already in part illustrated in the graffiti image, and get/run with it. Together.

    And try your hand at a rewrite and post it hereon.

    I think that's 'you're', rather than 'your'... but anyway, one of many great things about Permaea is that one doesn't need to rely, relatively-undemocratically, on elite groups or structures to do things, like publish.

    ^^ This last quote speaks to the crux of why I suspect that permaculture will not take up sufficient numbers in time... where permaculture falls, and will fall, short.

    It will work with and within civilization/the nation-state/crony-capitalist plutarchy frameworks-- their funny monies, legal structures and so forth-- until it is too late.
    Its practitioners won't really want or try to create a truly independent and free framework for themselves and others on similar waves, with some preferring, instead, to flaccidly niggle over writing style rather than its substance...

    Disagree? Then copy the entire manifesto, rewrite it and paste it in here for all to see and deliberate over, and also edit it hereon. Or find a site where this can be done as a group. Then let us decide which is the best version and go with it.

    https://youtu.be/DybMp4EtrO4
     
  13. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    This is in such a negative head space for me that the negative value speaks volumes to me, and something like this is not a needed value in my Permaculture. I can get angry, but that is a waste of energy, it is better to open up and move onto doing things I can do to help me and thus all my relations.


    Again, coming to me or anyone else with a negative attitude does not make me want to help you, I don't need anger & / or angry energy in my life, there is enough of it on CNN.



    GL, and peace be with ya.
     
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  14. Caelan MacIntyre

    Caelan MacIntyre Junior Member

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    Hi guys, I have made the quotes from you and others elsewhere, respond and recontextualize, follow/connect, and elaborate at the same time...


    M-yes, and I'm fairly sure many others like that from Bill can be found. Here's an arguably-gloomy quote by Holmgren, as included in the manifesto:

    "What's being proposed seems like a very us versus them mentality, and I don't understand how this fits into permaculture's general mentality of inclusiveness." ~ BelindaKate

    Bill and I are talking about the system, BelindaKate, rather than a 'them' per se... Well, maybe less me than Bill with the 'crazy people' remark. 'u^

    Pakanohida, willful (or otherwise, such as through mental tricks) denial/suppression/rejection of certain forms of reality seems to move closer to a form of 'intellectual monoculture'; or a classic sweeping of some things under the carpet. They're still there of course.
    While permaculture is in part about 'positive' approaches, that is not to be confused with the willful ignorance of serious concerns and discussions thereof, simply because they do not conform to one's notions of so-called positive thinking.

    Ironically-- and this is important-- much of the content or general sense of the responses to my initial post have contained or suggested much negativity. Not only that, but no one has really responded with much in the way of what was initially requested. Just some ostensible rationalization of maybe why they chose not to.

    Of course that still doesn't detract from the gist of the manifesto; namely that permaculture is a concept, an ethic, an approach, but within the larger and wrong framework, whereas Permaea is, or needs to be, say, a people and country/land/society outside of this nation-state framework.
    There is a distinct difference between the two-- permaculture and Permaea-- but they are meant to compliment and complete each other-- what both need to succeed.

    Whether some of you think the manifesto is poorly/negatively worded seems relatively irrelevant-- especially if you don't rise to the challenge-- and risking criticism of your peers-- of correcting that.

    Put On A Happy Face

    Smile or Die: The Tyranny of Positive Thinking

    It is not my manifesto per se, it is everyone's. That's why I am crowdsourcing its writing-editing. You guys have the ball in your hands right here and so far, you are collectively (as those participating on this thread) more or less dropping it.
    PRI is operating within the system. It uses its money, state-based geolocations and legal structures for examples. It is capitulating and remaining in situ. It advocates using back hoes to dig swales... for those who can afford it I guess... but where does it end and a new world begin? Maybe it 'begins' and continues with continual and honest self-reflections and re-evaluations and so forth, even where we don't like what we see, including in the mirror... without our rose-colored glasses...

    Permaculture needs to be self-critical or it will fail and I argue is already failing, such as if time is of the essence. Hence the manifesto.
    If we want to block our ears and make noises to tune out self-criticism, that won't likely make permaculture succeed either.

    Permaculture needs a 'lover' to complete it, to make it whole. It needs a revised strategy that accelerates it into a real working and separate culture and safety-net. Permaea is that strategy-lover and I intend on advancing it via a social network framework that could leverage Permaculture Global.
    That's mentioned in the manifesto too. No talk of that here so far, though. No deliberation in that regard, nada. But then, that would be more of a positive/constructive development.

    So let's see it.

    I am asking for help.
    Last I looked, permaculture was about helping-- care of people-- and I don't recall reading that it was qualified with help only to those who aren't upset with the system, or at least don't say they are, or at least in certain ways.

    Despite what you think of the manifesto or of 'adding yourself to it', Permaea is fundamentally positive-- blazingly and lovingly so (you only have to consider its drawings, its fundamental concept or its seething resentment for the current violence-based system to get a good idea). Doing little about where permaculture is right now and subverting attempts to move it forward seems much less so.

    Ya, it's fury that drives me sometimes too, Bill...
     

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