natural swimming pool/swimming pond

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by jeff, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Thanks for your compliments 9anda1f,

    There are no hard and fast rules with these pools. Designs can vary wildly.

    Water quality is the most important goal in my opinion and this will also vary wildly depending on construction and location.
    Drinking quality water is a reality from a well designed system, and is the benchmark that I must aim for when building for other people.

    Many of the pools that I have seen on the net don't appear to have the ability to be cleaned / vacuumed. Being able to vacuum a natural pool is a must, but it takes something very different to a conventional pool filter or cartridge filter.
    Algae is the main concern that I have noted from around the world. Algae is not so much the problem, rather the inability to remove it easily without wasting large amounts of water. When I vac my pool, I use about 60 litres of water to clean my mechanical filter. No other water is ever lost from the system other than from evaporation.

    My pool water ph is 7.5 constantly. Hardness is 17 mg/l CaCo3. Funny how it is called hardness, my water is very soft. Turbidity is 0.5 NTU, very clear.
    Ecoli when tested in mid summer was 3 organisms per 100 ml.
     
  2. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    I love the idea of having property and putting a natural pool in as opposed to the concrete Chlorine/Acid maintained beast. At least I would design a system to periodically irrigate some of the landscape or garden.

    Here is a question I have. Has anyone ever heard of this company in Aussieland which has been around for a very long time called Carefree Water Conditioners ???


    As you scroll through their website, you'll notice a lot of areas where their technology is used. Also numerous testimonials. I have never used their product, but my former employer from Australia does on his Farm in Ramona California and he noticed a difference from the Well Water straight away. But in reference to pools I have a personal experience with this company's product. Some time during early 1990s, I had a neighbour who needed help with his large Pool Service. His employee was sick and I helped out for a week. The task this week was mainly taking hammer and chisel to terrible scale build up around man of the pool edges where the tile was located. It was hard work. However, there were three pools in which the scale was almost non-existent and the other thing all three had in common is that each one had one of these Carefree Conditioners. My neighbour said that those pools never ever had scale issues and while the algae levels were low, he still had to add chlorine as by law. Incredibly, these deices work off electrolysis from the Earth where you drive a long Copper rod into the ground, but one of the keys to this even working properly is that the earth around the rod has to be kept damp.

    Anyway, just curious if anyone has heard of or used product from this company. It seems it would be ideal for natural pool maintenance.
     
  3. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Hello Earth's Internet, I live in Aus and have never heard of them, not that that means anything.

    Natural pools don't operate like normal pools and don't suffer from calcium build up. The best thing about natural pools, is that they don't need marvelous, magical, mystery electronic boxes and gadgets.

    One thing I would question about the site in your link is the '120 watt' pool pump. Never heard of a 120 watt swimming pool pump. I'd love to get some tho!
    Jeff
     
  4. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    I'm with a Research group here in Sweden who discuss research and techniques developed by Austrian Forester Viktoe Schauberger. Many Aussies are with this group and there will be a convention in the City of Höör this August 9 -11 2013 where most talk will be about Energy Solutions from Water. We've had a lot of kool presentations in the past and things inventors have come up with in problem solving. Another company with similar, but different water conditioning technology is a company called Watreco which is based in Malmö Sweden. They use a device which employs a Vortex compression which causes the water to implode resulting in smaller molecule clusters and without the use of chemical wetting agents. https://www.watreco.com/engelska.php

    Both devices require that clean water passes through them or clogging will take place, hence the need of pump and filter. Smaller molecule clusters means softer water and also more oxygenation, which is where my interest comes in with regards the response of plants and growth. This is why water from lightning fascinates me. I think the structure of water resulting from an electrical storm is far more important than perhaps the issue with gaseous atmospheric nitrogen being converted into something like water soluble nitrogen which causes plant growth spurts. Same effects on Truffle formation.

    Anyway, the more oxygenated the pool water and softer, the less environment for algal bloom. The systems replicate what water does from meandering movements and vortex spiraling from waterfalls and rapids with multiple whirlpool vortices.

    I just find it interesting and perhaps something I'd try and use for a Natural Pool if I wanted to build one.

    BTW, last Conference Watreco's Curt Hallberg demonstrated a oval shaped device which utilizes the Coanda Effect for oxygenating Ponds suffocating from Algal blooms. The demonstration was kool and illustrated something that normally takes place in nature when the environment is allow to function properly.

    -
     
  5. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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  6. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Along the same lines of the Coanda Device used in removing of Algal bloom problems in ponds or pools, here is an example design of Viktor Schauberger's Repulsine Vortex system. Curt Hallberg of Watreco demonstrated this almost identical design apparatus which had thick lips at the opening and the other end attached to a hose connected to a cloud or fog making machine. The result of the design is that the fog didn't blow straight out the end of the device, but rather was forced through the action of the vortex of air being sucked into the device while at the same time fog moving from the hose towards the opening. This forced action cause the fog to emerge and run backwards along the outer casing of this egg shaped or oval shaped design. Look at the model below.


    Click on this image here. It is too big to place up an an image on this page. The design is identical to the one I saw demonstrated.

    https://www.linux-host.org/energy/ssturbhtm1.gif


    After watching the backwards flow of the fog, he then placed the same device in a pool of water attached to a tripod-like stand which allowed free circular movement of the device which was now attached to a water hose. The result was that the air was sucked into the front opening, spun around in a vortex which the force of the opposing water coming from the opposite direction and forward movement was achieved by this Coanda Effect action. The water was then heavily oxygenated. We saw photos and videos where they had used this in heavily oxygen starved ponds where large mats of algae bloom floated on the surface. The water became softer and the mats sank to the bottom along with other nutrients which than allowed bacteria to convert them into broken down elements. The design was almost like a Jet Engine Housing if that makes sense.

    View attachment 1675
     

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  7. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Thanks for the links, all information is worth investigation.

    It is amazing what we can do with all sorts of polluted water when it comes to cleaning it.

    With natural pools, there is no need to complicate a simple concept. when we start adding devices, we mostly need to add power as well to drive them.
    If using modern devices can produce even higher quality water without adding to power consumption, then I say Go For It!

    My system designs are very basic and produce water that is good enough to....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Sj8jkKTD8
     
  8. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Thanks, Jeff, I enjoyed that and some of your other videos as well.
     
  9. CraigMackintosh

    CraigMackintosh *****

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    I'd love to see Jeff and/or others make up a post for the main blog on this topic. The pics and videos can of course all be included.

    Just to tease/encourage you, here's one I did a while back:

    https://permaculturenews.org/2009/0...biologically-active-and-attractive-fish-farm/

    Any articles can be sent to me on craig (at) permaculturenews.org

    There's a lot of swimming pools out there - many that people can no longer afford to maintain with their original intent, which could instead become a net gain, in fish and increased diversity. Such articles inspire people to get started.
     
  10. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Craig, I asked everyone a question about Australia's own Carefree Water Conditioner's and wondered if anyone has used them and how such a system could be incorporated into this type of Swimming Pond. Have you heard of them over there ?

    The website Inspiration Green had a nice take on them.

    https://www.inspirationgreen.com/natural-pools-swimming-ponds.html
     
  11. jeff

    jeff Junior Member

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    Hello Craig, thanks for your interest.

    I love to write about these pools (almost as much as building them) Here's a little more on my thoughts about the differences between what I have built, and the converted pool in your blog.

    Where to begin..............

    The possibilities for building one of these 'natural swimming pools' from scratch, are endless. Europe has some absolutely beautiful projects to show what can be done.

    Interest in turning unused conventional pools into food producing eco-systems is also gaining interest in Australia, but it's bloody slow!

    I think it important to point out that idealistically, they are at opposite ends of the diving board. Perhaps.

    The only way to approach a project like building a natural pool, or converting an existing pool to a food maker, is to do it as efficiently and effectively as possible.
    Taking the above into account is what puts these two systems at either end of the scale. They both have totally different requirements to achieve their goals.

    Basically, a natural pool requires the least amount of nutruient in the water to inhibit algal growth. A converted pool which in reality is an aquaponics system, requires a considerably higher nutrient input in the way of fish food, which eventually becomes plant food, basically.


    About four years ago when eastern Aus was in the grip of the 'latest' drought, I put 34 golden perch from my drained farm dam into my pools bio-filter for a six month period from about November. These fish averaged 1+ kilo each. The local fisheries dept said that I couldn't release them into the Murray river because they were farm fish of unknown genetics.........yeah, whatever. I had to act quickly to save these fish and did not salivate at the thought of preparing and freezing most of the fish.
    While I didn't give these fish a lot of food during their stay, they did get to crunch many yabbies that I purchased from the local fishing tackle shop.
    What I keenly observed, and expected, was that there was no apparent decline in water health or water clarity, and no increase in nitrates or algal/plant growth.
    My bio-filter has 15 tonnes of gravel in it so my system could in fact handle a great deal more fish.
    The problem with putting a lot more fish in the pool, is that my 'swimming pool' design did not factor in concentrating, gathering, and dispersing to grow beds, a high fish waste load.
    However, when it comes to converting a pool to an aquaponics system, my pool would be an ideal candidate.

    I have been asked before about combining an aquaponics system with a natural pool, and my thoughts are that it can't be successful. For swimming it has to be as healthy as possible.
    A few fish however pose no problems to these pools. Most of the major European builders ay that you can't have fish in the. Yes you can.

    The water in the pic is 3 metres/10' deep. Clear isn't it!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Your comment here from another thread I've brought back over here. I didn't want to derail this. But a couple of years ago I saw a documentary where a large city fire department was utilizing a heat pump which I seem to remember ran on simply the power of the water flow from the City Water Company's inbound pipes to the station. Anyway as the show examined the device or pump, it really looked something like this device in the video, but this uses electricity to power, but not that much.

    [video=youtube;yh_-DUKQ4Uw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw[/video]



    Hope that is helpful
     
  13. Earth's Internet

    Earth's Internet Junior Member

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    Here is that Albany Fire Department which uses the Cavitation Heat Pump. As you can see, it actually does use electricity, so it wasn't as I remembered it. Still it does seem amazing. Here is also a link to the company https://hydrodynamics.com/cavitation-technology/


    [video=youtube;V0M2GnQluJk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0M2GnQluJk&list=PL8BB78F3CC953951B[/video]
     
  14. thoughty1955

    thoughty1955 New Member

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    Very exceptional thread, i have additionally a polygroup summer above elite pool and i'm looking to make it natural pool. almost it seemed natural however for greater naturality i used those informative guidelines.
    Thank you lots for this precious thread.
     

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