Modifying existing toilet cisterns

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by Tamandco, Aug 13, 2005.

  1. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

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    I meant to start this thread a week ago after a discussion started up on the subject, but got distracted and forgot.

    We've got an old house with single flush loo and don't have the money to replace it, so I've just bent the copper rod which holds the float so that the water stops filling at under half. It does save heaps of water.

    Some people put a brick in their cistern to raise the water level. I suppose if space allowed, you could even put a few.

    You need to ensure that your pan can cope with a half flush though because some of those 70's pans with the big square s bend (and huge caroma cisterns) won't flush with the reduced amount of water. If this happens, you lift the seat, get half a bucket of water from the tap and dump it in the toilet bowl from a height.

    I hold the bucket about shoulder height. You need a good aim, but the gravity created by the height causes the force to clear the s strap completely. You might end up with a bit of cloudiness in the toilet, til the next flush, due to the force breaking up the toilet contents, but it's a small price to pay I guess.

    Will welcome lots of feedback and more ideas,
    Tam
     
  2. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    g'day tam,

    yeh keep your paradise, paradise put in a composting toilet they save heaps more water. read the humanure book lots of simple easy ideas there or build one yourself from bought plans .

    go to it

    len :D 8)
     
  3. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    Greenharvest sell a device which alters the cistern so that it only flushes while you have the button depressed. Don't have my catalogue with me - but I don't think it is very expensive. Unfortunatelly they don't have an online catalogue. I'll look at my catalogue (which is at work) and let you know the price.
     
  4. SueinWA

    SueinWA Junior Member

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    NEVER put a brick in your toilet tank. The brick isn't sterile, and algae & bacteria build up in it, since it's never dry. Some time before the brick is completely covered and permeated with gunk, the unfinished interior of the toilet tank ALSO starts to grow all the gunk. And you can't get rid of it. The stench will drive you out of your house.

    A friend of mine tried this back in the 60s (with chlorinated water, no less) and this is what happened. They saved some water, but ended up having to buy a new toilet.

    No bricks.

    Len has the right idea. Read the book, it's GREAT! It's free online, with drawings, and has tons of info about bacteria, pathogens, and composting in general.

    Sue
     
  5. sab

    sab Junior Member

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    A large jar or sealed plastic bottle will work just as well. Also you can fiddle with the water level inside the cistern so it stops filling at a certain height.
     
  6. Guest

    When I first moved here our toilet was a major part of our water waste in the first six months. Truth is, when you come from the city where your water is just "on tap" , you have very little idea how much your using, and attempts to turn off the water while brushing your teeth or half flushing (for example) make very little impact on your water use, when everyone is still doing it (brushing, flushing separately, I mean). Folks on a town water supply often amuse me...many have no real idea, and even though they are well intentioned, their water waste is blatant. I had one lady turn the tap on and off 3 times for absolutely no reason when she was telling me how she is water wise, and attempting to emphasise how others just waste it!!!!

    I have noticed that other newcomers to the area have learned in the same way we did. The water just plain runs out! When you pump your water, you are also paying for every flick of the tap as it kicks your electric pump on - so resource wise, we need to think about what brings us water too.

    I don't actually object to a septic system. I consider it a great way of regenerating focussed soil in your leech area if you can direct the water into it considerately. The area over my leech feild is possibly one of the healthiest natural areas on the farm, requiring very little maintenance, and certainly no extra watering. I agree with Tam about adjusting the arm level, and working out how much you really need to push it through. When you run on unchlorinated water, you get a gunky skum (organic buildup) form anyway that needs cleaning - brick or not. If you can't adjust the arm, then I say 'Go the brick, rock or whatever you can, to limit that water level'. Cleaning your loo tank does need to happen, and I just give mine a rough scuff up with the toilet brush every couple of months. Again - contained water is a micro environment. Water is a part of that. There will be constant movement around your outlet valve, but it's still a good idea to make sure that's clear.

    I gravity feed my loo from the dam tank now, which has several benefits - the main one being, that when visitors come, they can't all just go in there and go flush, flush, flush - which is something visitors inevitably seem to do! :) . It takes time for it to refill, so if the first one wastes the flush on a pee everyone learns very quickly what its like to have no water for 15 minutes or so. This has also encouraged the kids too to actually sing out and say "just going to the loo", which is often followed by "Ok, I'll follow you!" which of course = "Don't flush!"

    I run a water saver on the shower - which makes a huge difference! Reduced the water use easily to a third. Showers are encouraged every second day depending on activity. In summer, I stretch this out further again with the swimming pool and 'quick rinse showers'. Shower water is held in the bath tub and sometimes used to bucket flush the loo and always for washing clothes (twin tub), rinsing hands/faces etc., washing out animal water dishes, bucketing out to clean motorbikes, windows, floors etc. If it doesn't come out and I'm left with dirty water IN the bath, it is redirected down around the garden (as is the washing machine).

    I don't divert my kitchen sink into the garden, because it is what I consider greasy and the cook here is an oil freak. This is the sink most likely to be used for chemical products, so I send that underground. The leech area is not showing any obvious signs of distress. Mechanics hands are also washed in the kitchen with solvol or some other turps based hand cleaners, so we have a grease trap and that heads down into the septic. The grease trap has a solids catcher and it continues to astound me just how much food gets caught there...all those tiny bits left on a plate can really add up...so I try to clean that regularly and put it under trees, bushes or into the compost before it breaks down to liquid and moves through.

    When we first ran out of water, I considered a compost loo. Having looked at the prices of what is flouted today, I decided I just couldn't pay that much, without feeling like a right twit. I honestly believe there are a lot of capers out there, just designed to rob you in the name of environmental good practice. I had planned on building a simple outhouse structure and being the manure freak I am, had not intended to create a pit... As I figure this is not half as effective as the septic in terms of dispersion anyway. Instead I figure if I put one in I will build in a traditional outhouse dig out enough to accomodate a large plastic garbage bin collection tank, use sawdust as Sue suggested or sand/soils, and change/empty the bins when half... 3/4?.. full.

    I used a "porta-loo" for a few years in my teens, and also had a traditional sawdust outhouse when I was a kid at the family fishing hut. I know what i prefer...that porta-loo was HORRENDOUS :shock: to empty and smelt ten times worse than the outhouse. The diluted waste was also so potent it killed wherever it was emptied. Tip that onto a healthy compost and you'd be lucky to grow anything.

    Large underground compost systems are good alternate ways of disposing of waste - but that is really all they do. They create a mass collection that is not always much good for the larger system. If you seriously want to compost your waste, then I figure it may as well be useful and accessable, and actually contribute to your environment in practical ways. But that's just my thoughts on it...
     
  7. Veggie Boy

    Veggie Boy Junior Member

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    The 'Toilet Water Saver' sold by Greenharvest is $11 only. Claims to save a family of 4 about $40,000 litres per year, is easilly installed in minutes, no plumber or tools needed. Product reference is TW103 if you want to order through https://www.greenharvest.com.au

    Good plug for them heh....no I don't work there :p
     
  8. Tamandco

    Tamandco Junior Member

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    Hi again,

    I just thought I'd better clarify what I was talking about when I said I used the bucket for the 70's toilet....

    In my old house, we had 2 loos and when we first moved in and switched to a dual flush cistern, had dreadful problems with one of them not clearing solids from bowl. My plumber at the time advised that it was because this one pan was not suitable for dual flush as the other was.

    Our current loo is fine. It's got a small cistern anyway, but we've reduced the amount to about 1/3 which is about 3 litres. Funnily enough, if you don't hold your finger on the button, it won't keep flushing anyway, so I guess we're lucky there. Trouble is, when our 3 year old (or visitors) use it for #2, they don't know they have to hold the button in and the toilet gives a quick little squirt, then floaties are left behind. Of course, if you don't check it after, and just walk out, it's not very nice for the next user who may not be expecting it. :lol:

    The reason I haven't bothered with the brick is because (i) our cistern is probably to small to accomadate one, and (ii) our cistern is quite high perched on polypipe, and I wouldn't like to place any more stress on it.

    And guys, don't forget your lemon tree!

    Tam
     
  9. frosty

    frosty Junior Member

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    rainbow

    I have to disagree about composting toilets being a waste of money

    they may seem expensive on an existing house but if a composting toilet is put in when first building it and a greywater system are much cheaper than a horrible leach drain and give you usable compost from the toilet and usable greywater instead of a horrible toxic anaerobic leach drain system

    some are grossly over price but the Natureloo we put in with a candlelight farm greywater system saved us about $1000 .......

    however once you are stuck with a septic system is would be relatively simple to make your own composting toilet ....... very much simplified it is a collection bucket with a fan to dry the compost ........ the better systems have the bucket underfloor but small portable model have the bucket with a toilet seat on top

    hubby made one for our old bus we are converting to a motor home

    frosty
     
  10. gardenlen

    gardenlen Group for banned users

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    i agree frosty,

    our nature-loo uses no water and no power, all water that has been used ends up watering food trees or gardens.

    there is a diy toilet just like nature-loo that you can build for around $600 they say, you need to buy the plans from e-design they are situated in brisbane.

    len
     
  11. William Loh

    William Loh New Member

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    Reduce water consumption in flushing toilets by 50%

    Hi Tamandco,

    Please visit https://www.GreenAHAs.com to find out an innovative idea to reduce
    your water bills in flushing toilets.

    Yours sincerely,
    William Loh
    GreenAHAs.com Pte Ltd
    Singapore
     
  12. murray

    murray Junior Member

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    I have a friend who works for the government on our water shortage problem. It turns out that only 8% of water consuption is for domestic use...

    92% of our water is consumed by industry.

    It seems to me that taking shorter showers or drinking recycled waste water isn't really an answer and just a ploy to get politicians elected and boost ratings for tv news.

    Water is used in the weirdest ways. My friend was telling me it takes tens of thousands of litres of water to make a car and coal mining consumes heaps of water. In fact one crisis we face is getting water to our coal mines as the drought takes hold, because without water then coal production stops.
     
  13. hedwig

    hedwig Junior Member

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    the brick

    I think the brick don't work because it is porous not because there are bacteria on it (there are bacteria everywhere in the water flush of the toilet). But I think it is no good idea, because sometimes you need all the water.
    11$ are not such expensive, and there are some DYO possibilities to change the system in the same way than does the 11$ thing (I only have got them in German)
    In general compost-toilets are the better thing, in europe it would be great as well, because all the sewage systems in the towns are at least hundred of years old and should be renovated, sewage water leeks out - but nobody is able to pay this...
     
  14. matta1

    matta1 Junior Member

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    mouldy bricks

    Now that’s comical :lol: What’s wrong with a bit of stuff on the brick it has to be better than what in the bowl. Why don’t you change the brick if it looks like growing flowers than you could set it as flower brick? Nar just getting carried away.
    We used to divert our grey water from the washing machine into drums than gravity feed into cistern always had soppy water sometimes grey soapy water. Now I have plenty of water and the over flow feeds a pasture paddock.
    Matt
     
  15. matta1

    matta1 Junior Member

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    Now that’s comical :lol: What’s wrong with a bit of stuff on the brick it has to be better than what in the bowl. Why don’t you change the brick if it looks like growing flowers than you could set it as flower brick? Nar just getting carried away.
    We used to divert our grey water from the washing machine into drums than gravity feed into cistern always had soppy water sometimes grey soapy water. Now I have plenty of water and the over flow feeds a pasture paddock.
    matt
     

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