Looking for cheapest Trompe Designs

Discussion in 'Designing, building, making and powering your life' started by purecajn, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    I still feel that your aiming for too much pressure but if you want to power a generater then simply make the wheel spinning the gen shaft as large as possible and focas your air on the very outside of same. A wide wheel should act as a lever. the wider it is the less force is needed to spin the shaft. just like putting a cheater on a ratchet handle to get more torque with less force.
     
  2. Wolf_rt

    Wolf_rt Junior Member

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    absolutely, but it will take some time to separate the water and air, so the below ground 'tank' needs to be big enough to ensure good separation.

    the 'two wells' design i posted on the previous page would require external storage to be useful.

    Sizeing of the connecting pipe between the underground and above ground tank would be critical in a low pressure application.
     
  3. Wolf_rt

    Wolf_rt Junior Member

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    true (in a fashion) but generators have to be spun at a certain rpm to be efficient... for a fixed amount of power generation lower rpm will require more torque (pressure).
    efficiencies aside, it takes X amount of air(energy/Watt hours) to produce X amount of electricity(energy/watt hours)

    the psi figures i have supplied are from personal experience with air tools etc. 100psi would be better.

    if you get more torque with less force it will be at the expense of rpm.
     
  4. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    Ok, back to How much air pressure would actually be needed in a residential home? As air tools are more industrial related and we are looking for some of the least expensive Trompe designs for residential applications, I feel the system your concentrating on is not practical nor financially affordable for someone dealing with limited or no funds.
     
  5. Wolf_rt

    Wolf_rt Junior Member

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    i agree, but i cant think of anything useful to do with 15psi of air pressure?

    what is it you want to do with the air?

    must be 4am there.... go to bed..lol
     
  6. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    Target 1 would be the most basic. Producing just enough power to run a couple of lights (L.E.D.), run a radio, recharge cellphones and spin a fan
    Target 2 would be affordable for a low income family to make to power lights, run a computer and spin a ceiling fan as well

    am i forgetting something here. thats light, entertainment, and communication
     
  7. Wolf_rt

    Wolf_rt Junior Member

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    Rightio... would probably be more cost effective to have a small solar panel and a 12v battery to do these things. but for low light situations it would be good.

    i will work on target 2 - ie producing 200-300watts of electricity... i think this may be possible with an above ground system...

    the air tools i mentioned i estimate are equivalent to about 1000-1500watts..(by the way i pulled this figure out of my... well you know.)

    i have some 1in poly pipe... have to find some PVC down pipe material to make the 'well' I'll try and get something going in the next few weeks.

    if you can think of a way to use the air to directly do something useful,(good idea with the ceiling fan! as it could exhaust inside for a small cooling effect as well) that would have better efficiency.

    If anybody has an idea for a cheap and easy Low pressure High volume air motor...please post! we would need to see about 500rpm and 9Nm of torque i believe

    damn, i wish i was better at engineering problems!

    i wonder if the exhaust turbine from a very small turbocharger would work?
     
  8. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I think Cajn is dead on with figuring out the needs first.

    To run an electrical generator of any air source we need a constant, all be it low pressure source is fine so long as it is constant. Even this can be manipulated into being stronger then it already is.

    Electricity can be stored in batteries, not the best solution, but its what we got as technology.

    To run tools, pressure can build up, or put into a tank for storage, they are low priority.

    Everything past this should be gravy.
     
  9. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Would building a ferrocement cistern be applicable in this situation? Yes, I am still pondering this.
     
  10. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    I don't see why not, as long as it completely seals. Oh, and is dedicated too the Tromp rather than its intent.
     
  11. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    The intent is for me to build the trompe cistern out of recycled materials as best I can. I reckon a Garbage Warrior Outlaw septic system design with modifications can work in our advantage for this project. I am tempted to send materials to Michael Reynolds, aka the Garbage Warrior & see what he can pull out of his ass with this.
     
  12. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    I'm not familiar w/ GWO. I'll look for a few episodes on the internet. how large are you planning on making your verticle inlet pipe? I'm still a bit confused on the required water flow/volume required in said system
     
  13. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I am unsure still, my buddy I am doing this endevour with is rather busy with his new girlfriend suddenly, you know how that goes with Spring and all. ;)

    Garbage Warrior is a movie about the man who makes Earthships.
     
  14. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    I suddenly wonder if Bill Mollison is laughing at us fumbling with this?
     
  15. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    So far, this is my idea.

    Take large trashcan, and a few inches from the top slide a perforated pvc pipe through it. Now put lid on top, & flip upside down.

    Flip upside down, attach some pipe w/ pressure guages to go up to the surface, and cover the whole thing with lots of concrete.

    Attach pvc pipes to outside water source, cover whole thing in dirt.




    I just feel uneasy, it seems to me there has to be a safer containment vessel.
     
  16. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    great inexpensive idea w/ the trash can. Question is, at what rate does air accumulate vs flow?
     
  17. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    How can we know that till we make the trompe "straw" funnel thingy and have a water source?

    I would think that air pressure rate is = to the amount of air drawn via the venturi principle under gravity flow of water? This maybe why Mollison said it should be about a 100' drop.

    I am starting to wonder if it can be a self-powering system if a pump is used to expedite water flow. IE Pump creates high flow causing more air drawn then needed, thus powering the pump after its initial start up.




    We got tinkering to do. :)



    Now to find parts...& safety gear.
     
  18. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    Wait wait wait.... what about an inverted cast iron bathtub? You already got a pipe outlet for a vertical pipe system to the air taps above ground. Thoughts?



    This random thought brought to you by my PDC homework! :think:
     
  19. purecajn

    purecajn Junior Member

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    100' drop eh? So what your tellin me is that I'm going to need too run my pipe along the outside of a old Pine tree and pump water from the lake too its feed. Cast Iron tub is def storng enough.
     
  20. labradel

    labradel Junior Member

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    it seems to me if you need to pump the water then you may as well pump the air with a compressor the concept is to be able to obtain compressed air with existing water flow energy
     

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