1. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Thanks Marko. I was more wondering what defined it as coppicing, as opposed to say pollarding. Is height of cut the only issue or are there other differences?
     
  2. mischief

    mischief Senior Member

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    By cutting closer to the ground, the tree is supposed to live alot longer.
    Pollarding is doing the same thing, just up high, as you said, so grazing animals cant eat the new growth.

    That list you posted is quite long and Im looking forward to chewing thru it.
    I did notice that it had Urtica ferox-thats the stinging nettle tree and I was told, highly dangerous so that will be one I wont want even if it does coppice beautifully.
    Apparently it can cause paralysis or death.
    In Maori is called Ongaonga-or THAT!!!.The remedy for those who got stung by it, was to bury them up to their neck in the hopes that when the toxic chemicals they got stung with wore off, that the person would not be crippled by misformed limbs that the paralysis could cause,supposing that they actually lived.
    Cuppa tea anyone?
     
  3. pebble

    pebble Junior Member

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    Nah, it's not that bad. I've been stung by ferox a few times. Death of humans is very rare. You'd have to get stung alot to be killed, I think the risk is when people ride horses or try and walk through stands of tree nettle. The burying remedy is interesting - is that from Maori?

    I do agree it's not a good plant for a 1/4 acre though. Also, it's not a tree, it's a sprawling shrub. You wouldn't get much wood out of it.
     
  4. ecodharmamark

    ecodharmamark Junior Member

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    G'day pebble

    Yeah, the general consensus is the height of the cut makes the difference; just above ground level for coppicing, and up to 2m (6') for pollarding. The later at that height, it would seem, for both practical and aesthetic purposes; to deter grazing of the new growth in the case of the former, and to provide for a more rounded and defined crown in the latter.

    Cheerio, Markos.
     
  5. cottager

    cottager Junior Member

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    Coppicing and pollarding are roughly the same, only the height of the trunk varies.

    Personally, I like to keep a bit of trunk if you are cutting the branches annually ... it's a lot easier to move along a row of trunk and cut at shoulder height, than attempt to cut at ground level (I know this because I cut a line of eucs, about 150 metres long every year for many years, by hand ... and still adore the smell of that work!).

    On distance from the fenceline ... I would suggest at least two metres, not one metre, as you will need to be able to maneuver the branches as you work ... two metres gives you space to move (and also to mow, in the off-season, if you have grass).

    A simple test, to check whether a plant will cope with pollarding (or coppice, with a short stump). Prune a relatively low branch, but leave the growth around the trunk (the wrinkly circles around where the trunk originates ... I know there's a word for it, but ya know?) ...

    If that area sprouts new shoots, and they end up growing into branches if you don't come back and prune them again, then you can pollard the tree ... it'll work.

    Tea-tree here has that ability ... if you cut even a large branch, it will sprout many shoots around the injury, although the growth tends to be thick and bushy, rather than woody ... with a bit of selective pruning, to two or three shoots, you might get some strong branches. Maybe try trimming a big branch or two from one of your manuka's and see what happens?

    PS. As a bit of "mainstream" information ... have a look in your local florists. If native tree foliage is showing up there, then you can bet there is a method for regularly harvesting the foliage that you could tap into and utilize or adapt for your purpose.
     
  6. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I'm totally lost on that one and I cut trees every day. So, a lateral branch grows from, let's say the central leader, in a classic pyramidal shape, you cut that branch leaving a stub, or you cut it on target at the collar?
     
  7. cottager

    cottager Junior Member

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    Hmmm. What I was trying to describe (obviously quite poorly!) was a tree that will regrow branches under it's canopy if you prune a low branch off.

    Those ones, as far as I can tell, will cope with their entire trunk being cut off (they'll regrow). Things like cyprus, which just end up with a stump, won't coppice/pollard so much (if at all). Eucs, oaks, hawthorn, lillypilly, plum are some that do (as examples).

    Thank you for giving me the word "collar" ... that was the word I was looking for! Cut to, but not into, the collar. If it grows from that (under the existing canopy), then it's likely to be able to be pollarded (there's often growth stubs along the trunk on this type of tree). If a tree regrows from the branch-stump (left longer than the collar), then it will DEFINATELY be pollard-able :)
     
  8. cottager

    cottager Junior Member

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    Pollarding, in it's finest form, seems to be the creation of many collars at a designated height ... a bit like creating fruit spurs on an apply tree by judicious pruning.
     
  9. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    Righto. Though I'd question that ability as an indicator, if you prune at the right time and the God's are smiling upon you, sometimes you will get zero epicormic growth from the collar on the species you have listed. Maybe the cuts being made aren't right on target (target being the optimal place at the collar where compartmentalisation is at its best - the tree 'heals' the fastest)?

    Tipuna, for example, I have pruned and had no growth yet I've seen, and pruned myself to target and it spits out epicormic everywhere.

    Judging by your description then, Jacaranda as a common tree in SE QLD may be the best pollarder. Most trees will give up on shaded branches eventually (they know what's best), but Jacaranda will water shoot for miles.
     
  10. cottager

    cottager Junior Member

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    Hmmmm. Can't say I'd reckon Jacaranda's could sustain the growth. I'm guessing the water shoots would shrivel in under a year? Dunno ... haven't ever thought about pollarding one of those (too fussy a tree, the leaves are small and thin, not strong).

    Like the word epicormic tho ... (had to look that up btw ... that's the bumps in the trunk I was talking about - don't have the words, just know the plants I suppose ... so thanks for two words today! ... epicormic - makes sense ... epi for near the surface/skin, corm for the lump ... so that's the name of the lumps on the tree I described that grow the new branches ... brill!) ...

    Can't imagine a Jacaranda being able to be coppiced? Not having tried it ... is it possible?
     
  11. cottager

    cottager Junior Member

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    I like this ... I very rarely cut for no growth, but yes, I would have to agree that there is a distinct difference between cuts that create zero epicormic growth and those that encourage growth). From my (fairly limited) knowledge on cuts into the collar that encourage no growth, those would need to be somewhere around 2/3rds of the way into the collar, very clean and at an angle, to encourage the best healing, rather than new growth.

    So ... above the collar for growth, and into the collar for healing, and may the God's smile upon all of us :hi:
     
  12. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    We prune a few Jaccas and the water shoots will go from ground level to well above the canopy, easily discernible from the difference in their bark (once the water shoots are removed will usually have heavy epicormic from this area). Probably a warm weather thing, Grafton on the Mid North Coast of Aus are much better specimens.

    That said, I only used it as an example (because there are a lot of them around here), why would you bother coppicing a softwood that isn't a nitrogen-fixer? Permaculturally, of course.

    Most people don't hit their targets with pruning, barely any really. It's really easy to miss it and sometimes a few millmetres each direction will slow callousing on one edge, thereby leaving a wound open for longer. Take a look around, the best cuts have perfect 'donut' callous, even all the way around the cut area.

    Quick edit: Since you admit to limited knowledge, and not saying that Aus Standards are the pinnacle of human knowledge, try reading draft of the standard (saves having to pay for it). All the glossary is there, just scroll for the pictures at the least.
     
  13. cottager

    cottager Junior Member

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    It's true, I have limited knowledge. I'm a gardener ... there's not a chance I would call my knowledge anything but limited ;)

    Great link, thanks ... it's got lots of words I should use (bumpy lumps on trees that shoots grow out of, as a for-instance, are SOOOO much better [shorter] described as epicorms ;) ... and already I've started to get it wrong ...)

    On why you would coppice a tree that is not a nitrogen fixer ... I wouldn't coppice, I would pollard (height difference, not bending is nice for me). Aside from that ... I would pollard for many reasons, and one delightful one for euc's is for the oil - the young leaves on the new growth (under a year old) are chockers full of oil. Awesome stuff. Do euc's fix nitrogen?
     
  14. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    You changed your post since this morning, did I detect a tone? ;) I was going to post something about target cuts and how, in my humble opinion, it's best to always hit targets no matter what the purpose of the cut but that's for another day now. Pollarding is different but even removal of growth should be a target cut back to the node.

    Euc is a hardwood, so that's cool, my blanket statement on why was meant to be a blanket, not definitive. No, it's not a fixer. I did read a link the other day (was it here?) about there is little difference between burning softwood and hardwood which flies against everything I assumed regarding burning of timber. So maybe there is a market for fast-growing, non-nitrogen fixing softwoods for fuel purposes.
     
  15. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    i like pollarding eucs
    it allows extra grass to grow as the roots die back and it givs the tree eternal life
    who doesnt want that!
     
  16. andrew curr

    andrew curr Moderator

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    eucalipts are weeds

    they dont fix N
    they are alleopathic
    some are iconic:rofl:
     
  17. Raymondo

    Raymondo Junior Member

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    I've recently planted 40 yellow box (Eucalyptus melliodora) with a view to creating a coppiced woodlot. Not sure how well this will work out but I'm hopeful. Yellow box burns well, coppices and grows locally, hence the choice.
    They will be slow to get to a useful size so I want to plant acacias in the interim. I have one in my yard that grew really quickly form a tiny seedling to well over 4m in just two years. No idea what it is yet but if it sets seed this coming summer I'll be saving seed!
     
  18. S.O.P

    S.O.P Moderator

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    I've always been impressed by the local nitrogen-fixers or pioneers, something that can grow so fast, something can grow on what appears to be nothing but the smell of an oily rag and then after death, turn to dust so quickly. The life that lives within a dead Acacia (and living) is plentiful.

    But for growth, I've been impressed by the Pigeon Pea in the sub-tropics. I've done heavy, and I mean, heavy reduction prunings on the Pigeon Pea I have, and the rebound growth has blown away our ornamental endemic Acacia which is a different growth habit but still, was the benchmark for quick growth here. I reduction-pruned mine back not too long ago to 2m and already they are bordering 4m and flowering. The Acacia have grown maybe 300-500mm since then so about 2.5m at most.

    I still have Allocasuarina and Acacia melanoxylon/fimbriata (the ornamental) and yet to try A.disparrima on my block. Only small so I cant use the Tipuana/Albizia/Inga fixers here.

    I'm waiting for a Cassia to just appear, they seem to come up everywhere else after watching their Easter display.
     
  19. eco4560

    eco4560 New Member

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    Can you pollard ice cream bean I wonder....
     
  20. Pakanohida

    Pakanohida Junior Member

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    A giant sequoia tree that has been coppiced is a wondrous thing to behold.
     

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