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Bad News, and Good News, for Greece

Craig Mackintosh June 29, 2011

15 Less than a minute

BBC</a></em></p> </blockquote> <p>I can certainly appreciate why the people are protesting. The situation is similar to what we’re seeing in Spain at the moment — which is yet another country on the brink of implosion. Here’s what protesters there had to say recently:</p> <p><span id="more-5836"></span></p> <blockquote> <p>"It’s important to take to the streets because a series of measures are being taken by those in power – like the Euro-pact, for example – making Europe belong to the bankers and not the people," one woman protester said.</p> <p>"We are all against bankers, money and capital – and against corruption and the misuse of public money. That’s why we’re angry," said a male demonstrator. — <em><a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13833093" target="_blank">BBC</a></em></p> </blockquote> <p>The IMF and World Bank grant their loans with serious strings attached — including massive reductions in expenditure on public services, healthcare, etc., and large scale privatisation of Greek assets. Watching your country get sold off wholesale to multinational corporations is enough to drive many of us hopping mad. We’ve seen the results of the IMF’s ‘philanthropy’ in country after country, as I examined at length in <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2008/08/09/orchestrating-famine-a-must-read-backgrounder-on-the-food-crisis/">Orchestrating Famine – a Must-Read Backgrounder on the Food Crisis</a>. </p><div class="g g-3"><div class="g-dyn a-34 c-1"><style> @media (min-width: 350px) { .infeed { height: 90px; margin:auto; } @media (min-width: 500px) { .infeed { height: 90px; margin:auto; } } @media (min-width: 800px) { .infeed { max-width:729px; margin:auto; height: 90px; } } </style> <script async src="https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js"></script> <ins class="adsbygoogle infeed" style="display:block;" data-ad-format="fluid" data-ad-layout="image-top" data-ad-layout-key="xxxxxxxx" data-ad-client="ca-pub-4709140704829756" data-ad-slot="5264186828"></ins> <script> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); </script></div></div> <p>At the same time, we must remember that this economic fiasco is a problem of short-sighted thinking on the part of Greeks and their government. The country has left its rural agrarian and fishing past behind, and embraced an impossible future that’s almost totally dependent on one economic activity — tourism. Spiraling costs and economic woes worldwide are pulling that particular rug out from under the tourism-dependent Greek economy. </p> <p><strong>The Good News:</strong></p> <p>The good news is that many are beginning to see the light, and instead of waving placards with their gold watch-adorned wrists, some are revisiting their past, with the potential to find solutions in it.</p> <blockquote> <p>"Athens has failed its young people. It has nothing to offer them any more. Our politicians are idiots … they have disappointed us greatly," said Dikiakos, who will soon be joined by 10 friends who have also decided to escape the capital.</p> <p>They are part of an internal migration, thousands of Greeks seeking solace in rural areas as the debt-stricken country grapples with its gravest economic crisis since the second world war.</p> <p>"It’s a big decision but people are making it," said Giorgos Galos, a teacher in Proti Serron on the great plains of Macedonia, in northern Greece. "We’ve had two couples come here and I know lots in Thessaloniki [Greece’s second biggest city] who want to go back to their villages. The crisis is eating away at them and they’re finding it hard to cope. If they had just a little bit of support, a little bit of official encouragement, the stream would turn into a wave…." — <em><a href="https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/greek-crisis-athens-rural-migration" target="_blank">Greek crisis forces thousands of Athenians into rural migration, The Guardian</a></em></p> </blockquote> <p>The Greek government might want to take note of a recent development in China, where the Chinese government is actively sponsoring public resiliency:</p> <blockquote> <p>The Beijing Agricultural Bureau is trying to encourage the cultivation of mini-farms on balconies and in yards by offering residents free seeds and farming equipment. Growing one’s own greens can help to reduce carbon emissions, clean the air and release stress.</p> […] <p>"We want Beijingers to become balcony farmers because it is a healthy and low-carbon lifestyle," said a spokeswoman surnamed Su with the agricultural bureau. — <em><a href="https://beijing.globaltimes.cn/society/2011-04/572948.html" target="_blank">Global Times</a></em></p> </blockquote> <p>Amongst our recent PRI Australia interns are some who plan to return to Greece to start their own educational, demonstrational, <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2008/06/26/the-permaculture-master-plan-permaculture-centres-worldwide/">Permaculture Master Plan</a> site. With people returning from the tourist centres of the country back to their smaller towns and villages there’s a dire need for opportunities for re-skilling — so people can venture to take up occupations with a real future, and, in doing so, to take their future out of the hands of corporate vultures and back into their own. In a bid to support this endeavour, we’ll soon be launching <a href="https://www.permaculturegreece.gr/" target="_blank">a new PRI Greece website</a>. </p> <div class="g g-1"><div class="g-dyn a-34 c-1"><style> @media (min-width: 350px) { .infeed { height: 90px; margin:auto; } @media (min-width: 500px) { .infeed { height: 90px; margin:auto; } } @media (min-width: 800px) { .infeed { max-width:729px; margin:auto; height: 90px; } } </style> <script async src="https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js"></script> <ins class="adsbygoogle infeed" style="display:block;" data-ad-format="fluid" data-ad-layout="image-top" data-ad-layout-key="xxxxxxxx" data-ad-client="ca-pub-4709140704829756" data-ad-slot="5264186828"></ins> <script> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); </script></div></div> </div> <div id="post-extra-info"> <div class="theiaStickySidebar"> <div id="single-post-meta" class="post-meta clearfix"><span class="author-meta single-author with-avatars"><span class="meta-item meta-author-wrapper meta-author-1578"> <span class="meta-author-avatar"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/author/craig-mackintosh-pri-editor/"><img alt='Photo of Craig Mackintosh' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/14332c9b7aeaca2fd71f02eec7769a27?s=140&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/14332c9b7aeaca2fd71f02eec7769a27?s=280&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-140 photo' height='140' width='140' loading='lazy'/></a> </span> <span class="meta-author"><a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/author/craig-mackintosh-pri-editor/" class="author-name tie-icon" title="Craig Mackintosh">Craig Mackintosh</a></span> <a href="mailto:craig@permaculturenews.org" class="author-email-link" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" title="Send an email"> <span class="tie-icon-envelope" aria-hidden="true"></span> <span class="screen-reader-text">Send an email</span> </a> </span></span><span class="date meta-item tie-icon">June 29, 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class="screen-reader-text">Print</span> </a> </div> </div> </article> <div class="post-components"> <div class="about-author container-wrapper about-author-1578"> <div class="author-avatar"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/author/craig-mackintosh-pri-editor/"> <img alt='Photo of Craig Mackintosh' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/14332c9b7aeaca2fd71f02eec7769a27?s=180&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/14332c9b7aeaca2fd71f02eec7769a27?s=360&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-180 photo' height='180' width='180' loading='lazy'/> </a> </div> <div class="author-info"> <h3 class="author-name"><a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/author/craig-mackintosh-pri-editor/">Craig Mackintosh</a></h3> <div class="author-bio"> </div> <ul class="social-icons"></ul> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div> <div class="prev-next-post-nav container-wrapper media-overlay"> <div class="tie-col-xs-6 prev-post"> <a 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id="comments-box" class="container-wrapper"> <div class="block-head"> <h3 id="comments-title" class="the-global-title"> 15 Comments </h3> </div> <ol class="comment-list"> <li id="comment-125751" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-125751" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/6c5555366abb3fb45a540e3cee953cfa?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/6c5555366abb3fb45a540e3cee953cfa?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Pete</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-125751"><time datetime="2011-06-29T03:14:48+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 3:14 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>If the situation is forcing some people to get into resilience, at least there’s some (very small bit of) good.</p> <p>“we must remember that this economic fiasco is a problem of short-sighted thinking on the part of Greeks and their government.”</p> <p>I don’t agree with that one bit, the people are puppets, nay slaves, to the banksters. As with the IMF example, the problem is corrupt politicians, taking on onerous debt in cahoots with corrupt central bankers. The situation, and the cause, is similar in every country tied into the fractional reserve central (private owned) banking system.</p> <p>Default is the best option IMO.</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpxPo-lInk" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpxPo-lInk</a></p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-125751' data-commentid="125751" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-125751" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Pete" aria-label='Reply to Pete'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-125843" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-125843" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d74ddf8ca790297d21ea35e2c18ed56?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d74ddf8ca790297d21ea35e2c18ed56?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-125843"><time datetime="2011-06-29T04:24:02+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 4:24 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I don’t disagree with you Pete. Actually, when I wrote that bit I pondered if to put “the Greeks” in for a few moments. But, I concluded that despite the powers that be and other outside manipulations, the citizenry still must take some measure of responsibility. In the end, if we don’t, from the ground up, seek to create participatory democracy systems so that the government ends up doing the bidding of a lucid populace, then we’re just leaving our fate in the hands of said government and said outside manipulations.</p> <p>Also, I think in times of plenty, with the tourism boom, the populace looked to their own short-term selfish interests, and ignored the writing on the wall. And further, many Greeks took out huge loans they could never repay. Yes, the banks should never have made such loans, but these people applied for them anyway. </p> <p>Thanks for the doco link – it looks interesting. I’ll check it out when I can.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-125843' data-commentid="125843" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-125843" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor" aria-label='Reply to Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-126342" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-126342" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5657f897fca8354bb1c4319e89d3efa0?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5657f897fca8354bb1c4319e89d3efa0?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn"><a href='https://evanyoung.com.au' rel='external nofollow ugc' class='url'>Evan Young</a></b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-126342"><time datetime="2011-06-29T06:57:06+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 6:57 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I agree that waving placards is not the best thing to do but the greek citizen do far more than that. They know who has caused the crises in their country and are more than willing to destroy the property and infrastructure of those who hold the blame. Having been over there a few years a go I was very impressed with the passion of their social movements, especially the Anarchists who are living the model of direct democracy while they struggle against capitalism and the state. The only thing that seemed missing to me was them a more widespread agriculture, particularly in the cities, this will come however. I think the people of Greece set a fine example to the rest of the world, we can all learn a lot from them. For a “Permaculture Society” to exist we will eventually have to come up against strong and violent resistance from some very powerful forces, to deny this is to already admit defeat, so we need to be willing to do more than either wave placards, plant gardens, or riot in the streets. We need to do them all</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-126342' data-commentid="126342" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-126342" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Evan Young" aria-label='Reply to Evan Young'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-126354" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-126354" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d74ddf8ca790297d21ea35e2c18ed56?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d74ddf8ca790297d21ea35e2c18ed56?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-126354"><time datetime="2011-06-29T07:00:12+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 7:00 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Couldn’t agree more Evan.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-126354' data-commentid="126354" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-126354" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor" aria-label='Reply to Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-126365" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-126365" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/6c5555366abb3fb45a540e3cee953cfa?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/6c5555366abb3fb45a540e3cee953cfa?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Pete</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-126365"><time datetime="2011-06-29T07:02:39+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 7:02 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I think the writing on the wall, at the time, was in such a small font hardly anyone saw it. Remember this goes back to the late 70’s early 80’s when they brought in the legislation, credit easing by legislation, lobbied for by banksters, in lots and lots of countries at the same time including, UK, US, AUS, most EU countries (Germany being a notable exception) and many more, pretty much everywhere that had a housing price bubble.</p> <p>There was a whole industry sprung up, self directed/declared mortgages (no income checks), then the whole endowment mortgage scam went into overdrive, housing prices sky rocketed. Then the re-finance industry sprang up, I remember the adverts on TV, it was almost as bad as advertising free money! “unlock the income from your home” yeah right!</p> <p>Besides, Greece was set up by Goldman Sachs. They were in no state to enter the Euro, they were already bankrupt, the corrupt politicians knew, the banksters knew, and if you ask me the EU bureaucracy knew too. Hence it was onerous debt, taken on without the consent of the people, to pay interest on the loans they already had going back before the war.</p> <p>They should default, if the politicians are too busy watching their own back, do what Paraguay did, Revolt, a bloodless coup, or whatever it takes. Then appoint an unbiased forensic accounting team, find out exactly where the money went, what it was borrowed for and who authorised it, I suspect 80% of the debt could be written off legally under international law as onerous. </p> <p>Abolish the central banking cartel, initiate debt free sovereign money supply without usury, sit back and crack a tinny :) </p> <p>Job done, freedom from slavery! </p> <p>They (central banksters) will never let it happen of course, Gaddafi tried that, look what happened there! 3 weeks after the ahem “revolution” they opened a “new” central bank of Benghazi, helped by “foreign advisors”. </p> <p>Just to head off any flack for mentioning Gaddafi, I expect most people think Gaddafi evil incarnate from watching/reading western propaganda, I no apologist for him as he was a player with the banksters, but he was looking out for his own country, and the rest of Africa, I remember Nelson Mandela talking fondly of him for helping to end apartheid being the only foreign backer of the ANC. Doubters can watch this for a wider appreciation of his actions at home… <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLQAUUpJwU" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLQAUUpJwU</a> </p> <p>The banksters play the LONG game, these things are set up WELL in advance. Anyone read “The grand chessboard” & “confessions of an economic hit man” may be inclined to agree.</p> <p>I’m waffling sorry if I sounded snippy before, I’m on/off the PC between not very nice carer work trying to take my mind off it ;)</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-126365' data-commentid="126365" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-126365" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Pete" aria-label='Reply to Pete'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-127073" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-127073" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/52fe09914fb43d4e6d6bbd4d71573619?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/52fe09914fb43d4e6d6bbd4d71573619?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">coevicman</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-127073"><time datetime="2011-06-29T12:41:17+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 12:41 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Well on SBS Dutch news the other day a Greek shipping magnate stated that of the 20 Shipping Magnate families ; 5 could bail out Greece….!!!???<br /> Did they ever pay tax? Enough tax? Maritime workers there pay income tax in foreign lands under which the ships flag is registered!! Again no tax income for Greece. So well organised countries in Western Europe have to bail out the slack.<br /> Mega companies like the Australian Mining Industry have hold over the countries resources and squirm out of paying their due.<br /> Only 17% of mining is owned by Australia. Hence $50 Billion of lost tax revenue.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-127073' data-commentid="127073" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-127073" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to coevicman" aria-label='Reply to coevicman'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-127193" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-127193" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ce9a0555b7b5af0fd13be3381dce862?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ce9a0555b7b5af0fd13be3381dce862?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">jim burns</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-127193"><time datetime="2011-06-29T17:00:06+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 5:00 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Somehow this post went off before I’d finished editing or adding the websites. Butterfingers! Enjoyed your piece tremendously, Craig. Greece right now appears to be in much the same state as it was in the 6th century BCE, but less likely to produce anyone with the qualities of a Solon to bring about a peaceful resolution/revolution. Maybe Greek bankers & politicians need to read their own history & see how writing off debt could work for everyone. Anyone interested in checking out how he managed it see: <a href="http://www.e-classics.com/solon.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.e-classics.com/solon.htm</a> or <a href="https://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/solon.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/solon.html</a> They’re worth checking our for the way they show the differences that existed between the politics of hill farmers, coastal fishermen & urbanites (virtually a polyarchy), for the way Solon managed to get a general agreement between them all & end usury, but also for how short-sighted people can be when the problem is resolved, but not entirely as they forsaw it! Certainly today, Greek citizens are every bit as much slaves of the economy, and the wealthy who manipulate it, as were ancient Greek farmers.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-127193' data-commentid="127193" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-127193" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to jim burns" aria-label='Reply to jim burns'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-127249" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-127249" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f16a59608f88b5acb399e3955c7889cc?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/f16a59608f88b5acb399e3955c7889cc?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Nicolas Netien</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-127249"><time datetime="2011-06-29T18:51:59+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 6:51 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Hey guys, </p> <p>here is <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/coursedetail.php?page_id=195&scheduleid=290&classname=Permaculture%20Design%20Certificate%20%28PDC%29%20Course%20with%20Rhamis%20Kent%20on%20the%20island%20of%20Lefkas,%20Greece" rel="nofollow">PRI Greece first PDC</a>, if you want to be a part of the change emerging in Greece, all the surplus will be re-invested in sustainable Greece.<br /> They’re still few places left but hurry up!</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-127249' data-commentid="127249" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-127249" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Nicolas Netien" aria-label='Reply to Nicolas Netien'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-127275" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-127275" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ce755024600be1dfba851b7290647dc3?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ce755024600be1dfba851b7290647dc3?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">BehindTheMirrors</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-127275"><time datetime="2011-06-29T19:45:43+10:00">June 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Out of the crisis comes the opportunity. I’m glad to see this continuously growing awareness amongst fellow human beings. And without the alternative media and the internet we would still live in the dark ages.<br /> Lets say our knowledge and information was grassland, and was continuously mowed down every year for the big corporate cattle to feed and trample upon. Now the grassroot-people regain a few spots on the territory and make way for the first shrubs, which will evidentally shade out the corporate feed and will then eventually make way for trees that grow so high they can reach the stars.<br /> The people just want the government and corporations (which seems to be the same anyways…) out of their lives as the grass wants to be left alone to rebuilt a sustainable and endlessly productive system. And if you want you can accelerate the process, plant seeds and unlock minds.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-127275' data-commentid="127275" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-127275" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to BehindTheMirrors" aria-label='Reply to BehindTheMirrors'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-129658" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-129658" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fa158de274d34e755482eb8b4a0f0598?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fa158de274d34e755482eb8b4a0f0598?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Isaac</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-129658"><time datetime="2011-07-01T00:15:04+10:00">July 1, 2011 at 12:15 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Greece must default and crash the system. How can the govt/corporations expect anyone to accept austerity measures or have their pensions stolen when the rich keep all of their wealth and keep getting richer? Although I do believe that we should just do away with all govt entitlement programs, but not for those who have paid into them for years.</p> <p>The answer is re-localization. Do away with the national govts and corporations. It is what any thinking, informed person has to want if they care about anything other than their own comfort.</p> <p>The revolution is coming, its inevitable. The powers that be know it and will try to manipulate the situation as they always do over the next few years. </p> <p>I give the current system about 5 years max. </p> <p>Viva permaculture and local communities taking back control of their resources and lives!</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-129658' data-commentid="129658" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-129658" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Isaac" aria-label='Reply to Isaac'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-129660" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-129660" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fa158de274d34e755482eb8b4a0f0598?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/fa158de274d34e755482eb8b4a0f0598?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Isaac</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-129660"><time datetime="2011-07-01T00:17:17+10:00">July 1, 2011 at 12:17 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Oh, I’m doing what I can in my neck of the woods.</p> <p>North of Superior Permaculture @ <a href="http://www.permafarmer.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.permafarmer.blogspot.com</a></p> <p>Come drop in</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-129660' data-commentid="129660" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-129660" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Isaac" aria-label='Reply to Isaac'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-133770" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-133770" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ce9a0555b7b5af0fd13be3381dce862?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ce9a0555b7b5af0fd13be3381dce862?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">jim burns</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-133770"><time datetime="2011-07-04T03:04:55+10:00">July 4, 2011 at 3:04 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Craig, where can I find that data on Goldman Sachs involvement in the screwing of Greece? Would like to have that on file fr future ref.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-133770' data-commentid="133770" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-133770" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to jim burns" aria-label='Reply to jim burns'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-134407" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-134407" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d74ddf8ca790297d21ea35e2c18ed56?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5d74ddf8ca790297d21ea35e2c18ed56?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-134407"><time datetime="2011-07-04T22:06:35+10:00">July 4, 2011 at 10:06 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Hi Jim</p> <p><a href="https://www.google.com/#hl=en&xhr=t&q=goldman+sach+greece&cp=16&qe=Z29sZG1hbiBzYWNoIGdyZQ&qesig=udakcz9C2RsliGIk5lKt0g&pkc=AFgZ2tlYp9-HEBllKPahwp6okpFQmiEzZ_d5qFBZaU1JRH1hsN9bTYNj9VX4greVSnLipb9LuSuRZ0NsJ0P60AoTjtU7hdOxcQ&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=goldman+sach+gre&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1ec92a21f3882047&biw=1680&bih=90/ rel="nofollow">These may help</a>.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-134407' data-commentid="134407" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-134407" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor" aria-label='Reply to Craig Mackintosh PRI Editor'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-142546" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-142546" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ce9a0555b7b5af0fd13be3381dce862?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9ce9a0555b7b5af0fd13be3381dce862?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn">jim burns</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-142546"><time datetime="2011-07-07T17:49:10+10:00">July 7, 2011 at 5:49 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>thanks, mate!</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-142546' data-commentid="142546" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-142546" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to jim burns" aria-label='Reply to jim burns'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-142551" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 has-avatar"> <article id="div-comment-142551" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ae124cc93033d89f1f6972584123d974?s=70&d=mm&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ae124cc93033d89f1f6972584123d974?s=140&d=mm&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-70 photo' height='70' width='70' loading='lazy'/> <b class="fn"><a href='https://mosdem.blogspot.com' rel='external nofollow ugc' class='url'>Mihir</a></b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.permaculturenews.org/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#comment-142551"><time datetime="2011-07-07T17:55:59+10:00">July 7, 2011 at 5:55 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I am very happy that you are launching a PRI Greece website. Naturally living beings (including humans) do not want to change. They change only when a crisis occurs. So every crisis is an opportunity for us. Because people may be desperate for change but without knowledge of permaculture methods they may take the wrong steps. Adopting permaculture methods is like writing with the left hand. You will only do it if your right hand is not working.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel='nofollow' class='comment-reply-link' href='#comment-142551' data-commentid="142551" data-postid="5836" data-belowelement="div-comment-142551" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Mihir" aria-label='Reply to Mihir'>Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ol> </div> <div id="add-comment-block" class="container-wrapper"> <div id="respond" class="comment-respond"> <h3 id="reply-title" class="comment-reply-title the-global-title">Leave a Reply <small><a rel="nofollow" id="cancel-comment-reply-link" href="/2011/06/29/bad-news-and-good-news-for-greece/#respond" style="display:none;">Cancel reply</a></small></h3><form action="https://www.permaculturenews.org/wp-comments-post.php" method="post" id="commentform" class="comment-form" novalidate><p class="comment-notes"><span id="email-notes">Your email address will not be published.</span> Required fields are marked <span class="required">*</span></p><p class="comment-form-comment"><label for="comment">Comment</label> <textarea id="comment" name="comment" cols="45" rows="8" maxlength="65525" required="required"></textarea></p><p class="comment-form-author"><label for="author">Name <span class="required">*</span></label> <input id="author" name="author" type="text" value="" size="30" maxlength="245" required='required' /></p> <p class="comment-form-email"><label for="email">Email <span class="required">*</span></label> <input id="email" name="email" type="email" value="" size="30" maxlength="100" aria-describedby="email-notes" required='required' /></p> <p class="comment-form-url"><label for="url">Website</label> <input id="url" name="url" type="url" value="" size="30" maxlength="200" /></p> <div class="gglcptch gglcptch_v2"><div id="gglcptch_recaptcha_2096520685" class="gglcptch_recaptcha"></div> <noscript> <div style="width: 302px;"> <div style="width: 302px; height: 422px; position: relative;"> <div style="width: 302px; height: 422px; position: absolute;"> <iframe src="https://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/fallback?k=6LcCawoUAAAAAHWXT9dkkLv_EVjpgAn1NoklcxRE" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" style="width: 302px; height:422px; border-style: none;">

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